Regular stiffer than stiff

[Maninblack4612]

I have this theory that, because lots of golfers like to kid themselves they can use a stiff shaft, the manufacturers produce regular shafts that they label as "stiff". The punters buy them, can use them, and everyone is happy. The other day I bought a used TM SLDR with an allegedly stiff Speeder 57 shaft. I had no intention of using this shaft as I had already acquired a regular Matrix Black Tie. While the Black Tie was being fitted with an SLDR sleeve today I gave the original club & shaft a go on the launch monitor. The result was a series of high spinny hooks, telling me that the shaft was too whippy for even my 90mph swingspeed. I have just returned fro a session at the range with the Black Tie. The club is launching, as I knew it would, lower, with less spin and I had to dial in some draw bias to eliminate a small fade. In fact, it is launching lower at 10.5 degrees than the original shaft was at 9.0.

You could say that I should have been properly fitted but I have an aversion to buying new and have previous experience with Matrix shafts. The Matrix is also an after market & not a "made for" shaft and I'm sure this makes a difference.

Anyone in the market for a Speeder 57?

 

[nemicu]

It looks like all the OEM's will be have to rethink their product lines now that you're on to them. Or maybe, just maybe, they already know a teensy bit more about golf shafts than you do.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Different manufacturers will have different levels of stiffness along with shaft weight making a difference.

But labelling clubs stiff to give people the thought they are hitting a stiff shaft ?! Not so sure about that

 

[fundy]

that or the levels of quality control from some manufacturers really isnt up to the levels they should be

 

[Maninblack4612]

It looks like all the OEM's will be have to rethink their product lines now that you're on to them. Or maybe, just maybe, they already know a teensy bit more about golf shafts than you do.

No, I think they know a lot about psychology.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No, I think they know a lot about psychology.

Maybe being a bit paranoid ?

 

[Maninblack4612]

Maybe being a bit paranoid ?

Me paranoid.? Not surprising when they're all out to get me.

 

[nemicu]

No, I think they know a lot about psychology.

Well, you're right in some respects. Because the golf equipment industry is a multi-million pound/dollar business, not a lot is left to the element of chance in getting customers to buy their product. This means each head and shaft combination for stock club options are carefully selected to appeal to the widest possible target audience. This also means the stock offerings must also "fit" the greatest number of potential customers too. This is why "made for" or "watered down" shafts are used in some instances to be the stock shaft for a particular driver. Not because it is inferior at all, but because it will be suitable for 25-30% of the target golfing population rather than 10% for the beefed up after market version. It's no coincidence either that "made for" or even some similar branded shaft bears the same graphics and paint job as those we see the pros using on tour. The first point of contact is usually visual appeal - and the OEM's leave nothing to chance in this department either. It's clever marketing for sure, but it's never done as an exercise in deliberately misleading or misinforming the consumer. On the contrary, it's done with the best possible ratio of connecting the consumer with their product. So, because not everyone is equal in ability, physique, strength and so on, then neither is the the shafts that complete the package either. In short, it would be impossible to quantify the shafts and heads into any form of industry "standard" simply because there are just too many variables. The simple use of "regular" and "stiff" etc are a broad description of how a shaft is roughly categorised into the intended consumer bracket. It has NOTHING to do with actual in play characteristics. That, for want of a better expression, is your job. And 9 times out of 10, your ego rather than your good sense leads you into the wrong category or product. But even sometimes, the OEM's allow for this too and "soften, water down, make lighter, make more active tip etc" to make you look or feel better than you really are.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well, you're right in some respects. Because the golf equipment industry is a multi-million pound/dollar business, not a lot is left to the element of chance in getting customers to buy their product. This means each head and shaft combination for stock club options are carefully selected to appeal to the widest possible target audience. This also means the stock offerings must also "fit" the greatest number of potential customers too. This is why "made for" or "watered down" shafts are used in some instances to be the stock shaft for a particular driver. Not because it is inferior at all, but because it will be suitable for 25-30% of the target golfing population rather than 10% for the beefed up after market version. It's no coincidence either that "made for" or even some similar branded shaft bears the same graphics and paint job as those we see the pros using on tour. The first point of contact is usually visual appeal - and the OEM's leave nothing to chance in this department either. It's clever marketing for sure, but it's never done as an exercise in deliberately misleading or misinforming the consumer. On the contrary, it's done with the best possible ratio of connecting the consumer with their product. So, because not everyone is equal in ability, physique, strength and so on, then neither is the the shafts that complete the package either. In short, it would be impossible to quantify the shafts and heads into any form of industry "standard" simply because there are just too many variables. The simple use of "regular" and "stiff" etc are a broad description of how a shaft is roughly categorised into the intended consumer bracket. It has NOTHING to do with actual in play characteristics. That, for want of a better expression, is your job. And 9 times out of 10, your ego rather than your good sense leads you into the wrong category or product. But even sometimes, the OEM's allow for this too and "soften, water down, make lighter, make more active tip etc" to make you look or feel better than you really are.

So are you suggesting that my stiff shaft has nothing to do with actual play characteristics and all about consumer brackets ?!

 

[Maninblack4612]

But even sometimes, the OEM's allow for this too and "soften, water down, make lighter, make more active tip etc" to make you look or feel better than you really are.

My point exactly.

 

[BTatHome]

Swing speed is just one aspect of shaft characteristics that can effect your trackman details.

 

[nemicu]

So are you suggesting that my stiff shaft has nothing to do with actual play characteristics and all about consumer brackets ?!

Can you quantify what attributes makes a shaft "stiff"?

 

[Sion]

Taylor made are known for making very whippy shafts, there stiff shafts are more like a regular. I've got a regular black tie in my cleveland driver and the fitter told me it is stiffer than the stock stiff shaft. It just makes people think there better than they are if they can hit a stiff shaft!! And most 9.5 degree heads are closer to 10.5 or 11 degree lofts. It just gives people more confidence in them selfs if it has 9.5 stiff stamped on it. (Hopes that makes sence)

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Can you quantify what attributes makes a shaft "stiff"?

Composite make up of the shaft , weight , stiffness of the material and the manufacture of the shaft

As opposed to just having a label stuck on it

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Taylor made are known for making very whippy shafts, there stiff shafts are more like a regular. I've got a regular black tie in my cleveland driver and the fitter told me it is stiffer than the stock stiff shaft. It just makes people think there better than they are if they can hit a stiff shaft!! And most 9.5 degree heads are closer to 10.5 or 11 degree lofts. It just gives people more confidence in them selfs if it has 9.5 stiff stamped on it. (Hopes that makes sence)

My so called regular shaft in my old TM Burner was like wet spaghetti and a real Mr Whippy. Even their stiff shaft was too flexible for my liking. There will never be an industry standard and so in my humble opinion, the only way to find out how a shaft will react is to try a club before you buy

 

[nemicu]

Composite make up of the shaft , weight , stiffness of the material and the manufacture of the shaft

As opposed to just having a label stuck on it

But each shaft has it's own inherent qualities, in terms of weight, bend profile and flex. As well as composite make up ratio between fibres and resin, it's still impossible to quantify anything other than what the OEM tells us. A shaft may be light and very stiff, just as one might be very heavy yet flexible - and vice versa. One OEM may call a shaft S or stiff flex - Accra calls it M4 flex, Oban calls is Flex 4, PX calls it 6.0 and Matrix sometimes just give cpm numbers. All in all, even though each shaft is described in different terms, it's still possible to have each with similar playing qualities - as it is also possible to have two separate brands with identical flex descriptions with playing qualities nothing like each other.

 

[Imurg]

Can you quantify what attributes makes a shaft "stiff"?

The only thing that makes a shaft " stiff" is being stiffer in flex than the regular shaft of the same make.
Rarely will it bear any relationship to the stiffness or otherwise of other shafts.

 

[nemicu]

The only thing that makes a shaft " stiff" is being stiffer in flex than the regular shaft of the same make.
Rarely will it bear any relationship to the stiffness or otherwise of other shafts.

Not just the same make - the same actual product line too. If you take KBS iron shafts for example, the KBS Tour 90 STIFF is weaker than the KBS Tour regular. Confusing, eh?

 

[garyinderry]

has anyone on here ever hit a stiff shaft and been completely unable to get anywhere near the same distance they do with a regular shaft with the same head?