Reece Dempster, murderer and rapist.

[Hobbit]

Very dated way of thinking. You might want to read up on the Norwegian model https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12?r=US&IR=T

Can I split hairs on this one? In terms of rehabilitation of SOME criminals this really does work. However evidence suggests that for criminals convicted of the more extreme crimes it makes no difference in the vast majority of cases.

The Norwegian guy convicted of the mass killings of students on whatever island has an apartment that also includes a personal gym area. He’s never coming out... what’s the point in attempting rehabilitation? Without a doubt a very humane way to live but shouldn’t the punishment go some way to reflect the crime?

I’d argue that the UK’s version is poor but also the Norway’s version goes too far the other way.

 

[tugglesf239]

Personally

The choice between death and the rest of my life in a small solitary confined room, with no sunlight, no human contact and the most basic food

I’d chose death everyday of the week

These animals don’t deserve death

The deserve a lifetimes worth of punishment in torturous conditions.

I’d make it so horrific that they would plead for death as a mercy.

And on the plus side. If there is a miscarriage of justice. Well you can release instantaneously.

Winner winner

 

[3offTheTee]

Personally

The choice between death and the rest of my life in a small solitary confined room, with no sunlight, no human contact and the most basic food

I’d chose death everyday of the week

These animals don’t deserve death

The deserve a lifetimes worth of punishment in torturous conditions.

I’d make it so horrific that they would plead for death as a mercy.

And on the plus side. If there is a miscarriage of justice. Well you can release instantaneously.

Winner winner

Well Tugs, I really hate people that sit on the fence!

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

Personally

The choice between death and the rest of my life in a small solitary confined room, with no sunlight, no human contact and the most basic food

I’d chose death everyday of the week

These animals don’t deserve death

The deserve a lifetimes worth of punishment in torturous conditions.

I’d make it so horrific that they would plead for death as a mercy.

And on the plus side. If there is a miscarriage of justice. Well you can release instantaneously.

Winner winner

You're describing revenge, not justice.
Regardless of how I might possibly feel personally, I would not want to live under such a Draconian government.

People who commit unspeakably brutal crimes are mentally diseased, and humane euthanasia is a more appropriate measure than torture.
A society worth surviving doesn't condone torture.

It's fairly consistent.
In America, at least, people who think like this tend to be Evangelical Christians living in the interior.
Progressive people on the two coasts, who are morely likely to be secular humanists, have a hard time sharing a country with them.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Personally

The choice between death and the rest of my life in a small solitary confined room, with no sunlight, no human contact and the most basic food

I’d chose death everyday of the week

These animals don’t deserve death

The deserve a lifetimes worth of punishment in torturous conditions.

I’d make it so horrific that they would plead for death as a mercy.

And on the plus side. If there is a miscarriage of justice. Well you can release instantaneously.

Winner winner

I totally agree but can you imagine trying to get that through the Commons and Lords

 

[Slime]

So you advocate killing people on a chance ? As I said how many have re offended at such a level ?

And how many innocent people can someone kill from prison ?

That, simply put, is just a ridiculous comment.
The guy pleaded guilty!

 

[Slime]

Can you read that back to yourself and see how it reads - since when do start putting monetary values on people’s life’s ? And how much do you think it costs to administer the death penalty ?

We don’t live in the 15th century anymore where someone is found guilty and then hung the next day - the justice system does not work that way and it won’t. It costs millions to get people on death row and some stay there for 30 years until they die naturally.


So you advocate killing people on a chance ? As I said how many have re offended at such a level ?

And how many innocent people can someone kill from prison ?

The cost of a bullet/injection/whatever versus the cost of keeping him in prison for the rest of his life, not a complex equation.

Don't keep him on death row for 30 years, that'd be the answer to that particular problem.

 

[toyboy54]

Liverpoolphil...If hanging costs millions as you say/and a life in solitary costs the same...then just shoot the vermin,after all how much does a bullet cost?
My own preferred option would be kneecaps first,then elbows,coffee break while the scumbag considers his penance and what he did to deserve it then the 'coup de gras'
I realise this is a bit (O.K.very,Very OTTbut there is no deterrent to these scum)upsetting to the goody goody brigade,the snowflake brigade and the 'what about his/her human rights brigade------Wonder if that would come in to play if it was their families though?!
Terrorists?they want to go to and try to find a virgin in their version of heaven?Fine,blow them up but with a long,long fuse timer/purely to allow them to consider how they can look after said virgins with parts missing.(politely parphrasing Mr.Connollya.ka.The Big Yin!
No sanctions please PTH
HappyJimbo

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Liverpoolphil...If hanging costs millions as you say/and a life in solitary costs the same...then just shoot the vermin,after all how much does a bullet cost?
My own preferred option would be kneecaps first,then elbows,coffee break while the scumbag considers his penance and what he did to deserve it then the 'coup de gras'
I realise this is a bit (O.K.very,Very OTTbut there is no deterrent to these scum)upsetting to the goody goody brigade,the snowflake brigade and the 'what about his/her human rights brigade------Wonder if that would come in to play if it was their families though?!
Terrorists?they want to go to and try to find a virgin in their version of heaven?Fine,blow them up but with a long,long fuse timer/purely to allow them to consider how they can look after said virgins with parts missing.(politely parphrasing Mr.Connollya.ka.The Big Yin!
No sanctions please PTH
HappyJimbo

Why to try convince yourself your point of view is the correct one do you have to revert to labelling people with the opposite view or using the good old “what if it was your family” argument.

By all means support the death penalty, but what about were an innocent person has been found guilty or what about the families of those murdered who have been through what you suggest and have come out against the death penalty, are they wrong?

Didn’t the father of Jack Merritt (one of the London Bridge victims) come and and say he didn’t want his son’s death to be used as a pretext for introducing draconian measures, is he wrong, are you better positioned than him to tell others they’re wrong?

It really isn’t the black and white world you possibly believe it is.

 

[toyboy54]

Why to try convince yourself your point of view is the correct one do you have to revert to labelling people with the opposite view or using the good old “what if it was your family” argument.

By all means support the death penalty, but what about were an innocent person has been found guilty or what about the families of those murdered who have been through what you suggest and have come out against the death penalty, are they wrong?

Didn’t the father of Jack Merritt (one of the London Bridge victims) come and and say he didn’t want his son’s death to be used as a pretext for introducing draconian measures, is he wrong, are you better positioned than him to tell others they’re wrong?

It really isn’t the black and white world you possibly believe it is.

 

[Tashyboy]

Why to try convince yourself your point of view is the correct one do you have to revert to labelling people with the opposite view or using the good old “what if it was your family” argument.

By all means support the death penalty, but what about were an innocent person has been found guilty or what about the families of those murdered who have been through what you suggest and have come out against the death penalty, are they wrong?

Didn’t the father of Jack Merritt (one of the London Bridge victims) come and and say he didn’t want his son’s death to be used as a pretext for introducing draconian measures, is he wrong, are you better positioned than him to tell others they’re wrong?

It really isn’t the black and white world you possibly believe it is.

So don’t use a member of the family as part of the argument , but use a member of the family to support your argument. ?

As I have said before Paul there is two camps to this scenario/ death penalty/ punishment. And no one is going to change there stance such are the entrenched views. Ave said my thoughts and am now out of here and now focused on rammel putters.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So don’t use a member of the family as part of the argument , but use a member of the family to support your argument. ?

As I have said before Paul there is two camps to this scenario/ death penalty/ punishment. And no one is going to change there stance such are the entrenched views. Ave said my thoughts and am now out of here and now focused on rammel putters.

Big difference in trying to emotionally blackmail a poster on here with “what ifs” to using an actual example.

I’ll ask you one question Tash if it’s so black and white:

If Soldier F is found guilty of murder for the 2 Murders he’s accused of, are you going to be as vocal in your support for the Death Penalty or is it only certain types of murders you’d like to see it used for?

 

[toyboy54]

Paul........I'm not claiming to have the definitive answers to this horrible blight on society and you're right,it's not all black and white.
I should have pointed to/emphasised the importance of family impact statements being heard and more importantly.BEING LISTENED TO!
Again I would concede your point about the wishes of the family...but surely you must concede me mine about family or indeed the Crowns wishes if no such family circumstances were available?..Someone needs to speak for the dead and/or victims instead of the all too many soft(er)options used now??
As to your comment about ''labelling people with the opposite view of using the 'what if it was your family argument''.Can I be so bold as to ask @what would your line of thought be/or your feelings/emotions''And that's not to score any points btw really!

Would not a full and frank confession and/or indisputable forensics eliminate the assumption of innocence but finding guilty?
HappyJimbo

 

[toyboy54]

Paul........I'm not claiming to have the definitive answers to this horrible blight on society and you're right,it's not all black and white.
I should have pointed to/emphasised the importance of family impact statements being heard and more importantly.BEING LISTENED TO!
Again I would concede your point about the wishes of the family...but surely you must concede me mine about family or indeed the Crowns wishes if no such family circumstances were available?..Someone needs to speak for the dead and/or victims instead of the all too many soft(er)options used now??
As to your comment about ''labelling people with the opposite view of using the 'what if it was your family argument''.Can I be so bold as to ask @what would your line of thought be/or your feelings/emotions''And that's not to score any points btw really!

Would not a full and frank confession and/or indisputable forensics eliminate the assumption of innocence but finding guilty?
HappyJimbo

 

[toyboy54]

Paul/Tashy ...Sorry missed your comments...O.K we agree to disagree on things.......as for soldier F?Again would depend on circumstances
And for my info where have I tried to blackmail anyone.cos I certainly do not see anything if put down as being in that catergory..just wondering how others qould feel and,that includes your good self.
Wish to hell I could type quicker.
Happy Jimbo

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Paul........I'm not claiming to have the definitive answers to this horrible blight on society and you're right,it's not all black and white.
I should have pointed to/emphasised the importance of family impact statements being heard and more importantly.BEING LISTENED TO!
Again I would concede your point about the wishes of the family...but surely you must concede me mine about family or indeed the Crowns wishes if no such family circumstances were available?..Someone needs to speak for the dead and/or victims instead of the all too many soft(er)options used now??
As to your comment about ''labelling people with the opposite view of using the 'what if it was your family argument''.Can I be so bold as to ask @what would your line of thought be/or your feelings/emotions''And that's not to score any points btw really!

Would not a full and frank confession and/or indisputable forensics eliminate the assumption of innocence but finding guilty?
HappyJimbo

I’ve made it quite clear I would bring the Death Penalty for certain types of Murder, ie Paedo’s and Terrorists, I also accept that’s my issue having double standards.

The rest I’d prefer to treat the way tuggles has suggested.

As for how I’d feel, it’s a bit of a loaded question as none of us can truly say unless we’ve been in that position. I’ve had a mate killed by the IRA and now the one responsible is possibly walking the streets a free man (hopefully he’s dead and he died a lonely painful slow death)

I just don’t believe for one minute that the Death Penalty should be brought in for all murders. Too many times innocent people have gone down for a crime they didn’t commit.

Therefore we have to trust the Justice System, however, that needs a complete review and not the knee jerk reactions we keep seeing at the moment.

 

[toyboy54]

Paul.Thanks for the comments(always better to jaw jaw than war war.Aree with Tuggles as well very sensible.
Lost my 18y.o. cousin in N.I. to IRA (young lad with bairn on the way,grew up into a lovely girl)Not but my folks felt it really badly..can only imagine how you feel about such a loss)!
Anyway that's me for the night--off to watch the last 30mins of The Last Of The Mohicans complete with blood and gore and some haunting music!
TakTent
HappyJimbo

 

[Tashyboy]

Big difference in trying to emotionally blackmail a poster on here with “what ifs” to using an actual example.

I’ll ask you one question Tash if it’s so black and white:

If Soldier F is found guilty of murder for the 2 Murders he’s accused of, are you going to be as vocal in your support for the Death Penalty or is it only certain types of murders you’d like to see it used for?

In answer to your question. A guy walks into a house murders and rapes a pensioner and admits his guilt.

Now you ask me a complex question about a soldier ( F ) who denies murder whilst “defending“ himself and this country against terrorists, who we serve out the death penalty when said terrorists are on our streets. Be it ISA or the IRA.

What I cannot understand is the comments about me or others trying to ” Emotionally blackmail” fellow posters on here. I can only speak for myself that what I am trying to point out is that it could be any one of us on here that is affected by murder, including me. Furthermore there is no acceptance of emotional attachment from the non death penalty side of the discussion.Yet on the Very day this is mentioned, Helen McCourt who is still emotionally devastated that the scum that murdered her daughter is re
eased from jail. My grief with the none death penalty brigade is more thought is given to murderers than victims families.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-51396966

 

[Deleted member 15344]

In answer to your question. A guy walks into a house murders and rapes a pensioner and admits his guilt.

Now you ask me a complex question about a soldier ( F ) who denies murder whilst “defending“ himself and this country against terrorists, who we serve out the death penalty when said terrorists are on our streets. Be it ISA or the IRA.

What I cannot understand is the comments about me or others trying to ” Emotionally blackmail” fellow posters on here. I can only speak for myself that what I am trying to point out is that it could be any one of us on here that is affected by murder, including me. Furthermore there is no acceptance of emotional attachment from the non death penalty side of the discussion.Yet on the Very day this is mentioned, Helen McCourt who is still emotionally devastated that the scum that murdered her daughter is re
eased from jail. My grief with the none death penalty brigade is more thought is given to murderers than victims families.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-51396966

What a really poor statement to make

To suggest that people who are against killing others as a punishment are giving more thought to the murderers than the victims is disgraceful to be honest - I hope it’s just you not realising the impact of that statement as opposed to anything hateful.

You made a comment about the thread potentially being closed because of what people may post - only person who has got close is you with the complete , how do you say it “rammel”

 

[Wolf]

In answer to your question. A guy walks into a house murders and rapes a pensioner and admits his guilt.

Now you ask me a complex question about a soldier ( F ) who denies murder whilst “defending“ himself and this country against terrorists, who we serve out the death penalty when said terrorists are on our streets. Be it ISA or the IRA.

What I cannot understand is the comments about me or others trying to ” Emotionally blackmail” fellow posters on here. I can only speak for myself that what I am trying to point out is that it could be any one of us on here that is affected by murder, including me. Furthermore there is no acceptance of emotional attachment from the non death penalty side of the discussion.Yet on the Very day this is mentioned, Helen McCourt who is still emotionally devastated that the scum that murdered her daughter is re
eased from jail. My grief with the none death penalty brigade is more thought is given to murderers than victims families.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-51396966

Another absolute terribly not well thought through post there Tashy..

You can't understand the comments because you clearly didn't think before you posted by naming fellow forumers and using their family as hypothetical scenarios rather than sticking to facts. Likewise nobody is paying more thought to the murderer than they are the victims or families involved, that's just yet another of your bias spins to hammer home your point and is quite frankly a disgraceful thing to say.

Please next time engage your brain before you reply.