Reducing carbon emissions

In your own article it says 12-20% efficient .. so which is it?.

The article states 12-30%, so yet again you've changed the facts to suit your argument;

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
  • Energy efficient. EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 12%–30% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/10/electric-car-myth-buster-efficiency/

According to the US Department of Energy’s Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, “EVs convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.” An electric motor typically is between 85% and 90% efficient.

https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/how-efficient-is-your-cars-engine

...today’s gasoline engines are only around 30 to 35 percent efficient,

So your claim that an " EV is 86% efficient on average" is clearly incorrect based on either one of these articles; you've taken the efficiency of the electric motor and applied it to the whole electric vehicle, but not done the same for the ICE. Cherry picking your facts to suit your argument.

Fact is ev is far better for the environment than Ice and the fact your trying to justify it makes you a bigger idiot than I took you for.

The EV is far better for the environment than the ICE vehicle "at the tailpipe"; but unfortunately it is impossible to ignore all the other factors that go into getting both vehicles onto the road if you are going to accurately compare their environmental impact; manufacturing EV's creates more pollution per vehicle than a similar sized ICE vehicle. The fact that rather than acknowledge others concerns about the pros & cons you've chosen to resort to insults tells me all I need to know about the validity of your arguments.
 
You only have to look at the VW emissions scandal to see you can’t belive everything you read about these cars.
All manufacturers use energy and resources to make things.
I bought a new ICE car last year but the EV equivalent was almost £6000 more .
Until that changes we can debate until we’re blue in the face ,nothing will change significantly.
 
The problem with citing articles published on the internet is that the vast majority of them have an agenda to push. Everyone will be able to quote a report from somewhere that will support their own viewpoint. So this game of top trumps is ultimately futile.

One thing's for sure when it comes to EVs. Right now, in China and India, every EV is more damaging to the environment than a petrol car, simply because the electricity used to charge it comes primarily from burning coal. Does that mean we should stop developing EVs? Of course not. But it's far more important to switch grid generation to renewables than eliminate ICE cars. Banning ICE cars from 2030 is a political smoke screen.
 
Im with octupus. 100% of My energy is green that's their policy .. however not all are but that will come in time.
I'm with Bulb (for now - I am aware they are in trouble). They also claim that 100% of their electricity is green. But it's not really true. It's only the wholesale electricity they buy that's all green - they can't choose which electrons are delivered to our homes.

Suppose every home in the country switched to Octopus. I'd like to see how they could maintain their 100% green pledge then, because they couldn't.
 
The problem with citing articles published on the internet is that the vast majority of them have an agenda to push. Everyone will be able to quote a report from somewhere that will support their own viewpoint. So this game of top trumps is ultimately futile.

One thing's for sure when it comes to EVs. Right now, in China and India, every EV is more damaging to the environment than a petrol car, simply because the electricity used to charge it comes primarily from burning coal. Does that mean we should stop developing EVs? Of course not. But it's far more important to switch grid generation to renewables than eliminate ICE cars. Banning ICE cars from 2030 is a political smoke screen.

Get that, but when then initial fanciful claims include such stuff, there's little option but to resort to similar to refute.
 
I'm with Bulb (for now - I am aware they are in trouble). They also claim that 100% of their electricity is green. But it's not really true. It's only the wholesale electricity they buy that's all green - they can't choose which electrons are delivered to our homes.

Suppose every home in the country switched to Octopus. I'd like to see how they could maintain their 100% green pledge then, because they couldn't.

Very true you can't pick what comes to your house, and they wouldn't keep up now

However by the time the ban takes shape and in the years after how many of those electron's will be green compared to now?

Switching the grid will take time but will be done in the background and we will barely notice.

Not sure you’re going to win the argument by being abusive.
There’s no doubt EV’s are a future, they may not be the future, but after 2030 everyone’s choice will be limited.

The biggest issue I see with EV’s is still infrastructure. I charged one the other day, it took 18 hrs on a (inefficient) 7 kw charger. If you’re driving one, make sure you have access to fast charging. You seem really evangelical around climate change. Have you really done everything you can before you preach? Still got an ice ✅ gone full vegan? Flying anywhere soon?

Not about being Evangelical it's about doing all you can to reduce.

Where as some refuse to do anything full stop as why should they.. why should we be made to cut down..

Always someone elses fault / problem.

Like I'd said before

People are selfish and hate change.
 
If we stop making EVs tomorrow, lithium mining would still continue as it's used to power every laptop/mobile phone/tablet on the planet. Not forgetting battery tools, lawnmowers and our very own electric trollies. They would also need cobalt which is used in the refinement of crude oil when making diesel and petrol.
A small point about the cars carbon footprint.......
Does an ICE car EVER become carbon neutral?
 
I think we all agree things have to change, but Inwouldnargue ‘do as I say not as I do’ arguements won’t win people over especially when you’re still running an old diesel SUV or have air con retro fitted into your house.

I agree. But one person isn't going to change anything, it's up to governments and I'm sure that was the idea behind COP26. It's just a shame it wasn't thought through very well.
 
I have no problem with people advocating greener options, but hypocrisy will never win people over.

This thread is about reducing carbon emissions no? So using a HVAC to reduce use of a gas boiler is reducing emissions no? Or doesn't it fit your high standards?

Managed to cut boiler usage by 3/4 by topping up with a heat pump

That's a lot of emissions saved

But that doesn't suit your narrative does it.
 
Just read that Premiership clubs use flights to away matches for as little as 10 minutes to under 1 hour flight time.

At the same time some clubs are pushing greener policy’s,my own club Spurs had a carbon neutral day and asking fans to do their bit as well.

So much hypocrisy around climate change.

It amazes me the activists haven’t targeted formula one, that sport must have the worst pollution count of the lot.
 
If we stop making EVs tomorrow, lithium mining would still continue

Exactly the same inductive argument that is used to perpetuate fossil fuel consumption. “We’re mining it anyway so we should use it!”

No form of mining is clean. Extracting minerals of any kind out of the earth is an energy exchange with many by-products. We’re bringing energy out of the earth and using it on the surface where we exist.

We need to reverse the carbon cycle, not find and rely on new things to keep digging out of the earth.

Humans are idiots.
 
Why would that be?
Each race, 23 in total, is in a different country. Many of the flights will be long haul. Each one will have every team loading up their cars, gear, hospitality etc onto planes, flying to the next country. £1 says the top drivers and team excecs will take private planes for the journeys. You can argue about the fuel used by the cars in driving, qualifying testing etc but I suspect all of that is dwarfed by the flight emissions.

World sport generally is not great for flying but for weight of gear, distance etc F1 must be near the top of the tree.
 
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