Reducing carbon emissions

[Foxholer]

In order for golf to become green the grass should be allowed to grow on courses.
Manicuring is definitely harmful, as is fertiliser and pesticides. The real pests are the green keepers, or rather the people they are working under.
Same applies to lawns.
Also, take gardening programs off the air. Look at the harm they have done to our habitats by helping to destroy the natural balance between plant and animal biomass.

It's difficult to describe the above as anything but 'a load of male bovine manure'!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The bold bit, IMO, is an over simplification of a complex problem. In my experience it's, in many cases, not that people hate change its more that change is difficult and, almost without fail, comes with a cost.

If I said to you "you must get rid of your car that you call "the tank" (some MPV I think) and replace it with an eco friendly option by this time next week" then that may present you with some challenges.

You probably won't hate the idea of the change but you might find it more difficult than just saying "ok then I'll go and buy an EV this week to replace it".

Whether we like it or not, change takes time and effort (and cost) and the question of funding it not only perplexes businesses internally (and I face in to this every day) but entire countries, governments, organisations right down to individual people.

I think you'll probably find more people who want to change (or at least aren't hating the idea) but have no idea where to start because of the challenges that they face.

People don't buy cheap gas guzzlers (in the main) because what they have always wanted is a 55 plate Mondeo with 150k on the clock and an MOT advisory list longer than their arm. They buy them because they can't afford to join the revolution.

Now people, please remember the above is opinion and based on my everyday experience of dealing with both people and change and is no way purported as fact.

You have got it spot on

The main reason people are continuing to buy petrol cars etc or not having all the climate friendly goods is because right now it’s both not cost effective for them and also not practical for them.

When electric cars etc become the same price etc then more people will buy them

99.9% of people try and do their bit - recycle , walk instead of drive etc - the Uk try and do their bit

But there is nothing worse than people pointing fingers at others because they are still using fossil fuels or putting petrol in a car - even more so when those people will still be contributing to the climate problems.

When someone’s circumstances allow them to go as a green as they possibly can then most will do that.

 

[Foxholer]

...
The worlds biggest CO producer didn’t even bother coming to COP26, their Premier just released a video that fails to make any climate pledges whatsoever!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....esident-sidesteps-videolink-written-statement

Not true!
China WAS represented, just not by the President.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

How many miles does an EV have to do before it becomes carbon neutral? I've heard numbers like 70,000 banded around.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How many miles does an EV have to do before it becomes carbon neutral? I've heard numbers like 70,000 banded around.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...e-greener-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-8hb5m0dm7

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/pub...tprint-of-a-petrol-car-research-claims/209636

“Electric cars have to travel as far as 50,000 miles to match the carbon footprint of a petrol model because of the massive amount of energy consumed during the production process, according to research.”

 

[PJ87]

How many miles does an EV have to do before it becomes carbon neutral? I've heard numbers like 70,000 banded around.

As always these figures are branded about and stick even though they aren't fact checked.

70k miles if powered by pure coal power

13k miles of powered by coal, other fossil fuels and renewables

Little know facts on ev is how energy efficient they are compared

An ice car will go further but so inefficient

Ice cars are only 25% on average efficient, lot of energy lost through heat

An EV is 86% efficient on average

Through the whole process of getting petrol from the ground etc Vs electric a ice car will go say 40 miles to the gallon

A gallon is the same as a 32kw battery which is about 120 miles

So for the same amount of energy they go 3 times as far

Just can't hold as many "gallons"

 

[harpo_72]

Cop26 was a bit of a waste of time, the people there were not really there to save the planet more like have a few beverages and nice meals.
The Chinese get the bad press, yet they are the world leaders in electric car production and have gone through the teething issues. They also have green energy requirements that force their major industries to have green energy sources.
For me if this was a zoom call and no one flying in .. it would have had value .. being somewhere physically must change, travel must change ..
And no one has pushed the button on military vehicle emissions yet … leaving me to summarise that the governments are the key polluters and the public are just victims of their government’s pollution.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

As always these figures are branded about and stick even though they aren't fact checked.

70k miles if powered by pure coal power

13k miles of powered by coal, other fossil fuels and renewables

Little know facts on ev is how energy efficient they are compared

An ice car will go further but so inefficient

Ice cars are only 25% on average efficient, lot of energy lost through heat

An EV is 86% efficient on average

Through the whole process of getting petrol from the ground etc Vs electric a ice car will go say 40 miles to the gallon

A gallon is the same as a 32kw battery which is about 120 miles

So for the same amount of energy they go 3 times as far

Just can't hold as many "gallons"

What about the carbon emissions from extracting/manufacturing the batteries? That must be huge.

 

[Fade and Die]

Cop26 was a bit of a waste of time, the people there were not really there to save the planet more like have a few beverages and nice meals.
The Chinese get the bad press, yet they are the world leaders in electric car production and have gone through the teething issues. They also have green energy requirements that force their major industries to have green energy sources.
For me if this was a zoom call and no one flying in .. it would have had value .. being somewhere physically must change, travel must change ..
And no one has pushed the button on military vehicle emissions yet … leaving me to summarise that the governments are the key polluters and the public are just victims of their government’s pollution.

I think the whole thing was a beautiful display of nauseating hypocrisy…Producing 102000 tonnes of CO (the equivalent annual output of 10000 U.K. homes) and twice the amount of the last COP shindig in Madrid.
The strap line should be “do as I say, not as I do".

 

[PJ87]

What about the carbon emissions from extracting/manufacturing the batteries? That must be huge.

Compared to the mining and refining of fuel?

https://electrek.co/2021/03/01/mini...times-better-than-petrol-car-emission-cycles/

Electric vehicles consume far less raw material (metals) than fossil fueled cars
When taking into account the recycling of the battery cell materials and that the majority of the metal content is recovered, T&E calculates how much is ‘consumed’ or ‘lost’ during the lifetime of an EV. Under the EU’s current recycling recovery rate target, around 30 kilograms of metals would be lost (i.e. not recovered).

In contrast, the study shows that the weight of petrol or diesel that is burned during the average lifetime of a vehicle is around 300-400 times more than the total quantity of battery cells metals ‘lost’. Over its lifetime, an average ICE car burns close to 17,000 liters of petrol, which would be equivalent to a stack of oil barrels 90m high.

...

 

[Blue in Munich]

As always these figures are branded about and stick even though they aren't fact checked....

...An EV is 86% efficient on average

https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/benefits-of-electric-cars

Electric cars are far more energy efficient (85-90% efficient)

or

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml

• Energy efficient. EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels.

or

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/10/electric-car-myth-buster-efficiency/

According to the US Department of Energy’s Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, “EVs convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels... ...An electric motor typically is between 85% and 90% efficient.


So are you not fact checking, or just cherry-picking your "facts" to suit your argument?

 

[PJ87]

https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/benefits-of-electric-cars

Electric cars are far more energy efficient (85-90% efficient)

or

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml

• Energy efficient. EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels.

or

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/10/electric-car-myth-buster-efficiency/

According to the US Department of Energy’s Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, “EVs convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels... ...An electric motor typically is between 85% and 90% efficient.


So are you not fact checking, or just cherry-picking your "facts" to suit your argument?

So between 85 and 90 efficient in the car itself?

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/10/electric-car-myth-buster-efficiency/

Either way FAR more efficient than the ice cars that are worse than the 25% I put for the average ..

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Compared to the mining and refining of fuel?

https://electrek.co/2021/03/01/mini...times-better-than-petrol-car-emission-cycles/

Electric vehicles consume far less raw material (metals) than fossil fueled cars
When taking into account the recycling of the battery cell materials and that the majority of the metal content is recovered, T&E calculates how much is ‘consumed’ or ‘lost’ during the lifetime of an EV. Under the EU’s current recycling recovery rate target, around 30 kilograms of metals would be lost (i.e. not recovered).

In contrast, the study shows that the weight of petrol or diesel that is burned during the average lifetime of a vehicle is around 300-400 times more than the total quantity of battery cells metals ‘lost’. Over its lifetime, an average ICE car burns close to 17,000 liters of petrol, which would be equivalent to a stack of oil barrels 90m high.

...

https://youmatter.world/en/are-electric-cars-eco-friendly-and-zero-emission-vehicles-26440/

This suggests they are not as green as you like to make out.

 

[PJ87]

https://youmatter.world/en/are-electric-cars-eco-friendly-and-zero-emission-vehicles-26440/

This suggests they are not as green as you like to make out.

Only if you get your energy from dirty source

An old arguement that's stupid

What's easier.. changing the grid to pure green or changing cars then changing the grid slowly?

Im with octupus. 100% of My energy is green that's their policy .. however not all are but that will come in time

It's like when they put new boilers in that have to run off hydrogen aswell as GAs with the view of changing the mains supply ... Not green ATM but could be over time.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Only if you get your energy from dirty source

An old arguement that's stupid

What's easier.. changing the grid to pure green or changing cars then changing the grid slowly?

Im with octupus. 100% of My energy is green that's their policy .. however not all are but that will come in time

It's like when they put new boilers in that have to run off hydrogen aswell as GAs with the view of changing the mains supply ... Not green ATM but could be over time.

Once again you have cherry picked to suit your argument. Try reading the entire article. What about the harmful byproducts from extracting lithium and the dumping of old batteries?

 

[Blue in Munich]

So between 85 and 90 efficient in the car itself?

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/10/electric-car-myth-buster-efficiency/

Either way FAR more efficient than the ice cars that are worse than the 25% I put for the average ..

https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/how-efficient-is-your-cars-engine

...today’s gasoline engines are only around 30 to 35 percent efficient,

So you quote the engine efficiency for EV's, but vehicle efficiency for ICE's, and your defence for this specious argument is that "either way they are far more efficient". So much for fact checking.

 

[PJ87]

Once again you have cherry picked to suit your argument. Try reading the entire article. What about the harmful byproducts from extracting lithium and the dumping of old batteries?

From a 3 year old article that doesn't move with the times?

Batteries are litterally used in other things not "dumped" by any means

A guy in Surry takes old leaf batteries from written off cars and puts them in older leafs to keep them going longer and the battieres from them he has powering his warehouse from stored solar


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56574779.amp

Times change

That article is 3 years out of date. It's pretty much redundant

 

[PJ87]

https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/how-efficient-is-your-cars-engine

...today’s gasoline engines are only around 30 to 35 percent efficient,

So you quote the engine efficiency for EV's, but vehicle efficiency for ICE's, and your defence for this specious argument is that "either way they are far more efficient". So much for fact checking.

In your own article it says 12-20% efficient .. so which is it?

Fact is ev is far better for the environment than Ice and the fact your trying to justify it makes you a bigger idiot than I took you for.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

From a 3 year old article that doesn't move with the times?

Batteries are litterally used in other things not "dumped" by any means

A guy in Surry takes old leaf batteries from written off cars and puts them in older leafs to keep them going longer and the battieres from them he has powering his warehouse from stored solar


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56574779.amp

Times change

That article is 3 years out of date. It's pretty much redundant

OK, if you say so........

 

[Leftitshort]

In your own article it says 12-20% efficient .. so which is it?

Fact is ev is far better for the environment than Ice and the fact your trying to justify it makes you a bigger idiot than I took you for.

Not sure you’re going to win the argument by being abusive.
There’s no doubt EV’s are a future, they may not be the future, but after 2030 everyone’s choice will be limited.

The biggest issue I see with EV’s is still infrastructure. I charged one the other day, it took 18 hrs on a (inefficient) 7 kw charger. If you’re driving one, make sure you have access to fast charging. You seem really evangelical around climate change. Have you really done everything you can before you preach? Still got an ice gone full vegan? Flying anywhere soon?