Reducing carbon emissions

Foxholer

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So your saying even though we now know that burning fossil fuel is bad for the environment we must allow China and India to do it because we did it? That’s nonsense. If it’s wrong it’s wrong.

The West did it because there was no alternative at the time and we was unaware of the damage it caused, now we do and there are alternatives. China and India could easily power there countries with clean affordable nuclear energy.
They can't simply change from CO2 producing power generation to non CO2 producing power generation overnight! FFS, UK still generates power from Oil, which is pretty bad for the environment too!
And the amount of CO2 from vehicles is not insignificant either. Are you suggesting Oil based fueled vehicles are immediately banned?
China is actually leading the way in 'clean' power generation, but conversion from fossil based to clean fuel takes time.
 

Fade and Die

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I am not at all saying that China, India etc dont have to reduce their emmisions, but that hhe west have to help and encourage them to do so. F&D seemed to be saying what we did would make no difference when China etc is doing little. The point I am trying to make is why should China use what little resourse (per head) it has when the main causes of global warming are not using its vast resources to do so. Couldn't agree more with your last point, the world need to work together to solve its problems.
The US continue to be the largest emitter of CO2 per head.

As I pointed out earlier, the Saudi’s, Kazakhstan and Australia are all worse that the US in this.
 

Swinglowandslow

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They can't simply change from CO2 producing power generation to non CO2 producing power generation overnight! FFS, UK still generates power from Oil, which is pretty bad for the environment too!
And the amount of CO2 from vehicles is not insignificant either. Are you suggesting Oil based fueled vehicles are immediately banned?
China is actually leading the way in 'clean' power generation, but conversion from fossil based to clean fuel takes time.
True, but they could have signed for a phasing out (over time) rather than phase down.
These countries ( all, west , east, emerging) have to stop their power games.
It has to be hammered home that we are heading to become a dead planet, maybe like Mars.
(How many of you think, as I do, that Mars once did have an atmosphere, and probably life, but something happened for it to lose it's atmosphere, and it now is what it is.)
It won't much affect us, but how the hell a species which can be as clever as we can be, cannot work together on this.?
Makes you want to see UFOs and aliens manifest themselves and tell us to pull our fingers out, or else?
 

GreiginFife

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Everyone loves to try and look on the negatives of the deal yesterday to suit their agenda to not bother and oh their not so why do I have to

Rather than all the positives of getting a deal through. A very important deal that could make a huge difference to the future of our race

But no I want to buy a cheap gas guzzler.. to hell with the planet I should be able to do what I want because India changed the wording

End of the day people are selfish and hate change

The bold bit, IMO, is an over simplification of a complex problem. In my experience it's, in many cases, not that people hate change its more that change is difficult and, almost without fail, comes with a cost.

If I said to you "you must get rid of your car that you call "the tank" (some MPV I think) and replace it with an eco friendly option by this time next week" then that may present you with some challenges.

You probably won't hate the idea of the change but you might find it more difficult than just saying "ok then I'll go and buy an EV this week to replace it".

Whether we like it or not, change takes time and effort (and cost) and the question of funding it not only perplexes businesses internally (and I face in to this every day) but entire countries, governments, organisations right down to individual people.

I think you'll probably find more people who want to change (or at least aren't hating the idea) but have no idea where to start because of the challenges that they face.

People don't buy cheap gas guzzlers (in the main) because what they have always wanted is a 55 plate Mondeo with 150k on the clock and an MOT advisory list longer than their arm. They buy them because they can't afford to join the revolution.

Now people, please remember the above is opinion and based on my everyday experience of dealing with both people and change and is no way purported as fact.
 

pauljames87

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The bold bit, IMO, is an over simplification of a complex problem. In my experience it's, in many cases, not that people hate change its more that change is difficult and, almost without fail, comes with a cost.

If I said to you "you must get rid of your car that you call "the tank" (some MPV I think) and replace it with an eco friendly option by this time next week" then that may present you with some challenges.

You probably won't hate the idea of the change but you might find it more difficult than just saying "ok then I'll go and buy an EV this week to replace it".

Whether we like it or not, change takes time and effort (and cost) and the question of funding it not only perplexes businesses internally (and I face in to this every day) but entire countries, governments, organisations right down to individual people.

I think you'll probably find more people who want to change (or at least aren't hating the idea) but have no idea where to start because of the challenges that they face.

People don't buy cheap gas guzzlers (in the main) because what they have always wanted is a 55 plate Mondeo with 150k on the clock and an MOT advisory list longer than their arm. They buy them because they can't afford to join the revolution.

Now people, please remember the above is opinion and based on my everyday experience of dealing with both people and change and is no way purported as fact.

Yet you also get a long list of rubbish from anti change that all modern tech is awful, ev should be instantly ready at the same price and go same distance with zero compromise made by them.

I'd get rid of the tank in a heart beat, just waiting for eldest to be out of car seats. We have seriously reduced its usage (3000 miles this year) with the ev doing 12000 miles .. anytime we can travel ev we do. Or walk

Have meat free days as that's a massive reduce in carbon

But you get those who aren't willing to even try any measures

Scientists should be making the changes for them.
 

GreiginFife

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Yet you also get a long list of rubbish from anti change that all modern tech is awful, ev should be instantly ready at the same price and go same distance with zero compromise made by them.

I'd get rid of the tank in a heart beat, just waiting for eldest to be out of car seats. We have seriously reduced its usage (3000 miles this year) with the ev doing 12000 miles .. anytime we can travel ev we do. Or walk

Have meat free days as that's a massive reduce in carbon

But you get those who aren't willing to even try any measures

Scientists should be making the changes for them.

None of the above equates to hating change though. It’s not unreasonable to expect a similar product or service if it’s being mandated.
I understand that people do put barriers up to change, as I say I deal with it every day, but it’s not usually hatred but more uncertainty or, in some cases, change fatigue.

Ok so why don’t you change the MPV to an EV today? In that heartbeat, make that change.

Lots of people are making small changes but with cost of living rising exponentially the cost of those “meat free” days is often higher then the meat equivalent. It’s the sad reality whether we think it should or shouldn’t be the case.

Science helps us find solutions, but someone, somewhere has to pay for them.
 

pauljames87

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None of the above equates to hating change though. It’s not unreasonable to expect a similar product or service if it’s being mandated.
I understand that people do put barriers up to change, as I say I deal with it every day, but it’s not usually hatred but more uncertainty or, in some cases, change fatigue.

Ok so why don’t you change the MPV to an EV today? In that heartbeat, make that change.

Lots of people are making small changes but with cost of living rising exponentially the cost of those “meat free” days is often higher then the meat equivalent. It’s the sad reality whether we think it should or shouldn’t be the case.

Science helps us find solutions, but someone, somewhere has to pay for them.

Meat free is almost as cheap as meat now.. Tesco have a vaste range

As stated, waiting for eldest to get out of car seats .. otherwise I'd change now , nice Skoda enyag once she tall enough will be fine
 

GreiginFife

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Meat free is almost as cheap as meat now.. Tesco have a vaste range

As stated, waiting for eldest to get out of car seats .. otherwise I'd change now , nice Skoda enyag once she tall enough will be fine

Almost but not, and that distinction can be extremely important to the less advantaged.

I’m not following the logic of the car seat. Why does a car seat stop you changing now? Car seats fit in EVs surely?
 

pauljames87

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Almost but not, and that distinction can be extremely important to the less advantaged.

I’m not following the logic of the car seat. Why does a car seat stop you changing now? Car seats fit in EVs surely?

3 car seats do not fit in an EV unfortunately, to get 3 car seats in I had to go for one of 4 cars on the market

Once the 4 year old is either 12 or tall enough she can come out and then have a twin either side

Without twins we wouldn't even have that car
 

GreiginFife

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3 car seats do not fit in an EV unfortunately, to get 3 car seats in I had to go for one of 4 cars on the market

Once the 4 year old is either 12 or tall enough she can come out and then have a twin either side

Without twins we wouldn't even have that car

So your circumstances dictate what you can and can’t do regarding change…?

Interesting.
 

pauljames87

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So your circumstances dictate what you can and can’t do regarding change…?

Interesting.

However I am willing to change..... And I far from moan about it ...

Like I said, once the kids are old enough I'm in

Which is a safety thing ...rather than a poor excuse like oh I don't want to adapt as they only go 170 miles on a charge and I don't want to ever stop...
 

GreiginFife

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However I am willing to change..... And I far from moan about it ...

Like I said, once the kids are old enough I'm in

Which is a safety thing ...rather than a poor excuse like oh I don't want to adapt as they only go 170 miles on a charge and I don't want to ever stop...

Oh absolutely, I know you are willing but then so are so many that want to but limiting factors mean that they can’t rather than won’t.

Yes there is a vocal element that decry change but it doesn’t mean that people inherently hate change as you asserted earlier.

And for info, my mate has an Etron Audi (Q5 type) and 3 car seats fit in that. His kids are 4, 3 and just shy of 2.
 

pauljames87

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Oh absolutely, I know you are willing but then so are so many that want to but limiting factors mean that they can’t rather than won’t.

Yes there is a vocal element that decry change but it doesn’t mean that people inherently hate change as you asserted earlier.

And for info, my mate has an Etron Audi (Q5 type) and 3 car seats fit in that. His kids are 4, 3 and just shy of 2.

Are they all alone the back? The twins have to have massive seats ATM .. which are bigger than the 4 year old so the day is coming round.. prob tie in nicely with the current ev lease ending
 
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