Question for Bobmac

[birdieman]

Bob,

1st wee hit in 4 months today, 100 or so balls, all a 7 iron just to try and find some rhythm.
Went ok, hit some good shots, however the grouping was concentrated a good few yards left of target from my age-old arms before body downswing tendency, coming over the top just enough to tweek them left. Divots were pointing ok so I think I must be hooding the face a little. I used to balance this 'bad move' with a weak grip which slightly opened the face but that led to loss of distance and high 'floaty' shots.

I resolved last year to correct this fault and hit more penetrating lower shots by gripping correctly which naturally delofted the face back to where it should be but I am always plagued by this tendency to pull hook a little and sometimes more than a little left.
If I really concentrate on leading the downswing with unwinding the hips I can get it right at target ok. Some days I can get it bang on, others I struggle to stop going left. I have no idea what the right side of any golf course looks like!

Any suggestions as how to best cure this? At the moment I just have to think before every practice shot to lead the downswing with the hip turn rather than the arms. When it works its great but it doesn't always. I feel this is what is stopping me scoring better, this lapse back to arms first. I have lost countless 0.1's from pull hook tee-shots in particular.

Would swinging slightly flat worsen this whilst standing too far from the ball? - guilty of this sometimes too. If I stand closer I can usually hit it straighter. So is it easier to come over the top if you are reaching for the ball?

Am I right in thinking to stand a little taller, closer to the ball and think hip turn as the 1st move on the downswing?

Or is there something else?

 

[bobmac]

Sorry for the delay Birdieman, I was out all day yesterday.
Sorry to hear your still going left.
The first thing to check is your aim. I assume it is straight and not right?
Secondly, if your divots are straight, then your not coming over the top.
So as you say, that just leaves the clubface.
If you stand nearer the ball, that promotes a more upright swing and is easier to throw at the top which will result in an out to in swing, steep angle of attack and more often than not left to right cut spin or pull/hook.
One thing I'd like you to try is on the backswing, keep the weight on the inside of your right foot. That will help you turn your left hip out of the way which as you say helps you hit it straighter.
Stand your normal distance from the ball and just think turn round, not back.

 

[birdieman]

Thanks Bob.

Aim - I am meticulous about this given the problem, I have a stick across toes pointing exactly to target and I am very concious of not having open shoulders, even saw a tip from Ledbetter I think to aim your head a little right of target (Nicklaus did that I think) which I tried.

Divots are ok, so as you say looks like clubface turning over closed a little - I imagined through a poor hip rotation on the downswing. Trying to keep a neutral grip but after having played with a weak grip for many years it can still feel odd.

Will try the weight inside right foot thing you suggest next time. If I can't straighten it out I'll go see the pro at Banchory as he's the one that got me to make the grip stronger and hip rotate rather than slide.

p.s you'll notice I did listen to you on the 5 wood thing, got rid of the 20.5 hybrid and have one less wedge now as the mp32 wedge comes in at 47 degrees so a 50 gap wedge was maybe a luxury.

 

[bobmac]

Cleveland Hi-Bore Monster XLS 9.5 deg
Cleveland Launcher 15 deg 3w
Cleveland Launcher 19 deg 5w
Mizuno MP32 3-PW
Titleist 54 and 60 spin milled vokey wedges
Taylor Made Rossa Monza Spider Balero

Looks like a better balanced bag for a 4 handicap duffer to me.

 

[birdieman]

If you can cure my pull hook you can call me whatever you like!

 

[bobmac]

If you can cure my pull hook you can call me whatever you like!

 

[JustOne]

Aim - I am meticulous about this given the problem, I have a stick across toes pointing exactly to target

 

[bobmac]

Aim - I am meticulous about this given the problem, I have a stick across toes pointing exactly to target

I know. You're thinking he should be pointing on a line parallel to the ball to target line.
Birdieman says his divots are straight, therefor his path is straight so I'm not bothered.

 

[JustOne]

I'm not bothered either, couldn't care less if he shanks his way round the course.

I was just wondering where he's aiming.

 

[brendy]

I'm not bothered either, couldn't care less if he shanks his way round the course.

I was just wondering where he's aiming.

Did you not read, hes aiming at the sticks at his toes!

I take it you arnt just getting too wristy BM?

 

[JustOne]

Did you not read, hes aiming at the sticks at his toes!

To be honest I couldn't figure out what he's doing, it sounded like a pile of contradictions to me.

I'm guessing he's throwing the club over the top a little and hitting pull-fades that aren't quite fading enough to get back to the target... occasionally he doesn't turn properly though and the hands take over... shutting the club down a few degrees, hitting a pull-hook.

I haven't a clue about the aim (which sounds right of target) or the whole "head pointing to the right" thing, but if he's quoting Nicklaus then he probably IS trying to move the ball left to right.

That's about where I'm at... but I think your right about the sticks

 

[birdieman]

Aim - I am meticulous about this given the problem, I have a stick across toes pointing exactly to target

I know. You're thinking he should be pointing on a line parallel to the ball to target line.
Birdieman says his divots are straight, therefor his path is straight so I'm not bothered.

Guys, the target was 150 yards away not 2 yards away, all I meant is I have a stick pointing towards the flag, not pointing 2 feet to the left of the flag. So what you're saying is I'm setting up aiming 2 feet right of target, yes? If I can hit a ball to 2 feet from 150 yards I'll be off to Q-School ok.

 

[birdieman]

I'm not bothered either, couldn't care less if he shanks his way round the course.

I was just wondering where he's aiming.

Did you not read, hes aiming at the sticks at his toes!

I take it you arnt just getting too wristy BM?

Good call Brendy, yes this does happen, quick hands. Timing was naturally out a bit - 1st hit in months.

 

[JustOne]

So, what shape of shot are you hitting.... and what are you trying to hit?

 

[brendy]

I suffered hooks as my bad shot for years as my hands and wrists took on a mind of their own. I've now stopped it dead but my bad shot has turned into the high push 10 yards right of the target though by standing a little closer my good shots are becoming the majority again. Much more like when I was off 6. By quietening my hands I occasionally leave the face a tad open. I prefer that than a mid to low tracectory duck hook!
There is nothing worse than cracking a great drive down the middle then worrying about the iron.

 

[birdieman]

Did you not read, hes aiming at the sticks at his toes!

To be honest I couldn't figure out what he's doing, it sounded like a pile of contradictions to me.

I'm guessing he's throwing the club over the top a little and hitting pull-fades that aren't quite fading enough to get back to the target... occasionally he doesn't turn properly though and the hands take over... shutting the club down a few degrees, hitting a pull-hook.

I haven't a clue about the aim (which sounds right of target) or the whole "head pointing to the right" thing, but if he's quoting Nicklaus then he probably IS trying to move the ball left to right.

That's about where I'm at... but I think your right about the sticks

What's a pull-fade?

There is hardly ever a fade, the shots start straight and tail off to the left, there is defo right to left spin on the ball. When I'm on my A game they start a little right of target and come back to target so a draw is my natural shape.

Not copying Nicklaus, he was a fader, but if you watch the back of the ball with the left eye more than the right it just aligns your head facing a smidgeon right of target. When Nicklaus takes the club away that's how he looks.

 

[birdieman]

So, what shape of shot are you hitting.... and what are you trying to hit?

Always hit right to left my whole golf life, I can fade it too but that doesn't come naturally or easily to me.
Happy to play a slight draw as my natural shot, if I try to hit it too hard or get out of sync or quick from the top I can tug them left. When I am swinging well and clear the hips the club drops down and comes at the ball a little from the inside, when I start down with arms and dont clear the hips I think I throw the club a little out, not sure.

Tried to describe as best I could what was going on yesterday 75% of the time. I hit a good few on target but I hit no fades or slices, they all move right to left. A slice or anything left to right is very rare for me.

Used to be guilty of the old hip slide (does creep back in) which left the club behind me and I had to flip it over at impact which required very good timing but leads to inconsistency. Since last year trying to rotate hips better with passive arms and be more consistent. It did work as my scoring was more consistent and I got hcap down a bit. Only went over 80 gross once all last season in competition scoring.

Getting confused now, will maybe see the pro again.

 

[bobmac]

It's alright BM, I know what you mean.

 

[JustOne]

So, what shape of shot are you hitting.... and what are you trying to hit?

Always hit right to left my whole golf life, I can fade it too but that doesn't come naturally or easily to me.
Happy to play a slight draw as my natural shot, if I try to hit it too hard or get out of sync or quick from the top I can tug them left. When I am swinging well and clear the hips the club drops down and comes at the ball a little from the inside, when I start down with arms and dont clear the hips I think I throw the club a little out, not sure.

A pull-fade starts left of the target and turns back towards it.

If you are hitting straight and it's turning left of the target that is a perfect draw.

If you want to hit it out to the right a little and have it turnback in towards the target that is a push-draw.

If that is your normal swing pattern then you are only going to hit 'em left when you get stuck on your right side or behind the ball.

Getting onto your left promotes an in-to-out swing path OR you can move the ball back half a roll instead which means you make impact just a fraction further back in your swingpath sending it out to the right.

I love your description of trying to hit the ball too hard and throwing the club from the top, this is the classic hallmark of getting too much weight to the right side (hitting it harder) and not being able to recover it back infront of the ball in time.

If you are hitting a draw/push-draw then you really shouldn't be listening to anything to do with Jack Nicklaus as he used to hit the ball massively from left to right. If anything you want to be seeing the ball with your RIGHT eye as you should be right over the ball at impact (drawer of the ball) with your hips beautifully turned 45°, not behind it looking out of your left eye.

hope this helps.

 

[birdieman]

Thanks for the input gents, will have a few more practice sessions to iron things out, maybe even get some video and report back when I feel my swing is back to normal.