Putting Stats

[haplesshacker]

Does that mean that I can call a fairway in reg if the ball just scrapes into the first cut off the fairway? Or a GIR if the ball lands on the fringe, and I decide to use a putter from the fringe?

Sorry to be pedantic, but surely these areas are quite clear cut (no pun intended!). I really don't care what anyone else does, (though it does screw up direct comparisons with others if you're that way inclinded), but if the ball is on the putting surface, then it's a putt, regardless of club used. If it's on the fringe, regardless of how far away or how near it is to the hole, then it's not a putt, again regardless of which club is used.

Just think how many '0' putts you might have if you used this method and holed out from the fringe.

However, just my opinion of course, and I can't play golf, so whadda I know!!

 

[JezzE]

HNJ,
Not sure what your bizarre par-3 example is trying to prove here?
Two points I was trying to make really (and it is of course just my opinion)
1) Getting too bogged down in stats can be as misleading as it is helpful.
2) If I take three putts from just off the green where putter is clearly the most prudent, or indeed only, sensible option then as far as I'm concerned that is a three-putt, regardless of its impact on my stats (if I kept them!)

Anyone who adopts an alternative approach is of course perfectly entitled to do so!

 

[TonyN]

Twire,
To be honest I don't really keep my stats. It just seems that the motivating factor for not counting putts from the fringe might sometimes be to boost your putting stats a little artificially. If I'm 20 feet away, I would generally be expecting to get down in two with a putter whether or not I was on the green. Only counting it as two putts just doesn't really seem right if the only reason is to 'protect' your putts per round stats.
But as I say - just my opinion,

I think you are using an artificial method yourself, by counting every shot with the putter you are lowering the number of shots from off the green so your general play stats are affected. Its all about number of strokes regardless of what personally makes you feel better in your accounting. Ive used a putter with a full golf swing before now, just having a laugh with my nephew, should I count it as a putt, it was about 40yds off the green?

There is a putting surface called the green, if I used a 3 iron on the green it would be considered a putt with a 3 iron, if it was on the fringe it would not. If I took a putter off a par 3 tee, then pitched onto the green and knocked it in with a 3 iron, how many putts would you record?(Ive been known to get a putter 70yds or more off the tee)putting is for the putting surface to me, what ever club you choose elsewhere is your choice but its still a shot no matter how you mark it.

You do like Beef dont you!

I can see Jezz's point and to me makes perfect sense. If I were only 20 ft away from the hole but still off the green, and I failed to get down in 2, I would definitly mark the 3 strokes as 3 putts. The reason most people keep stats is so they can improve, and surely you would need to improve the putting if the above happened. So to fabricate the outcome to keep the stats in check is a total waste of time and effort. But I think you know when a putt is a putt. For instance, if I were 30 yards off the green on a links course and had a nice line, I might decide to have a jab with the flat stick, I aint going to class it as a putt though as it would normally be a chip/pitch shot so wouldn't expect to make it anyway! It certainly wouldn't give me any better indications as to were my game was failing in that instance!

 

[HartleyHare]

Surely the defining factor in a putt is if you're trying to get it in the hole?

if it's just off the green but you think you've got a good chance to either hole out or leave it within gimme range it's a putt.

however as Tony N said if it's an effort to get it close, from off the green as a preferred option to a chip or pitch it's not a putt.

 

[JezzE]

TonyN & Hartley,
Indeed - spot-on and exactly what I was trying to say.
If you're looking to use your stats to pinpoint where you need to improve and you hit one to 20ft but 6ins off the green and then three-putt, to my mind it is your putting that has failed you rather than the so-called missed GIR that following the stats to the letter of the law might have you believe.

 

[DCB]

Stats are a very personal thing. As long as we each record/detail our stats in a consitent manner then thats fine.

Its how we review the numbers and use them to progress afterwards that makes the big difference.

 

[SammmeBee]

If you're using a putter off the tee and putting with a 3-iron then I think you may have bigger problems to face than worrying about how many putts you have in a round....

FWIW - if I use the putter then it's a putt and if it's not on the green then it not a GIR....

 

[Herbie]

Dear me people do get a little wound up over a simple disagreement???

Fella's I dont give a flying ****, what method you as an individual use to account for your golf, I have looked at my post and analogy given, but its not me who comes back with the childish comments posted by those who are clearly hurt by anothers disagreement and as usually follows, the collective snide remarks of meaningless critique of a person rather than objective comment based on the subject matter. If you dont understand whats being posted dont answwer it. Grow up.

 

[RGuk]

Hmm, this is quite fascinating.....

I'm seeing everyone's point of view on this. There was a time when I would NEVER putt from off the green (more than a foot say) because I wouldn't want to have "yet another" 3-putt, which my playing partners (then) would have always called it. That was silly, because sometimes, a putter is the right choice....

At the end of every round, I mark (in unused columns) my stats for GIR, putts and fairways. This is as far as my stat keeping goes....oh, and I very occasionally have a S/Save.

I KNOW if my bad shots have been mostly pulls or pushes and I KNOW which holes to count "how many" putts on.

Let's say, I'm covering my round in the evening after before filing my duplicate card. If I've scored a 5 on a par 4 with no GIR and 2 putts, that tells me I've missed the green for 2, chipped/pitched/putted/"full shot" onto the green and had 2 putts.....
Of course, if If I've scored a 5 on a par 4 with no GIR and 3 putts, that tells me I've missed the green for 2 but probably only by a foot or two, and should have had only 2 putts.

This is all fairly dull (yes, I know) but I can look at a card from 10 years ago and "picture" the round.....I have cards from places like the Belfry and could work out almost exactly what happened. The only thing I can't tell is the "method" for getting on the green, but, as we seem to be discovering, this is a personal thing in the way we do it and the way we consider it....

I'd have thought a lot of 3rd shots at a course like the Belfry would have been full shots!!!

 

[SammmeBee]

Dear me people do get a little wound up over a simple disagreement???

Fella's I dont give a flying ****, what method you as an individual use to account for your golf, I have looked at my post and analogy given, but its not me who comes back with the childish comments posted by those who are clearly hurt by anothers disagreement and as usually follows, the collective snide remarks of meaningless critique of a person rather than objective comment based on the subject matter. If you dont understand whats being posted dont answwer it. Grow up.

Pot....kettle.....

 

[JezzE]

Exits stage left under cover of darkness vowing never again to express an opinion or get involved in any posts of this nature, and to stick to just writing stuff for the mag...!

 

[stevo]

wow..i didn't realize this would generate such a debate!!

 

[SammmeBee]

Exits stage left under cover of darkness vowing never again to express an opinion or get involved in any posts of this nature, and to stick to just writing stuff for the mag...!

I think it is talking sense that confuses them Jezz.....

 

[Cernunnos]

Just a quick question for you guys that keep stats...if you use the putter from off the green do you count that as a putt..

Stevo

Officially no its not classed as a putt for putting stats.

But for amatures its an idividual thing.

Though if you are putting from the fringe, or off the green, then I would want to be entering a zero or a one in the putts box. If you are putting twice more after using a putter from off the green then even if its not officially a 3 putt its going to chargrain.

EDIT: As regards the did you intend on sinking the shot with a putter from off the green is imiterial, as even chips from off the green we can intend on sinking. Hell, we would all love to sink shots out of bunkers with any club. I've actually played a local course where all the members use putter to get out of the bunker the sand is that bad.

If we are to include all shots using putter, no matter where they are from or if intention is to try & sink the ball then we'd be as well using a 3 iron to hit every putt from off the green so as not to hurt putting stats or simply to chip'n'run with whatever club we want to try & sink or get close.

When we miss a green no matter how close or far we will always choose the club that gives us the greatest chance of holling out or getting as close as we can.

This is why shots with putter from away from the green surface are not counted OFFICIALLYas putts in putting stats. Otherwise we might as well count balls in the fringe or off as GIR when we decide to use putter as the next club to use, when this is not the case. We have not made GIR & a putt taken from fringe & off are not counted as putts, but as a shot in its own right.

 

[TonyN]

Exits stage left under cover of darkness vowing never again to express an opinion or get involved in any posts of this nature, and to stick to just writing stuff for the mag...!

Jezz, dont let him 'putt' you off, he's not that bad, just reminds me of the Mrs but a little more opinionated and not as good looking.

 

[RGuk]

This is why shots with putter from away from the green surface are not counted OFFICIALLY as putts in putting stats. Otherwise we might as well count balls in the fringe or off as GIR when we decide to use putter as the next club to use, when this is not the case. We have not made GIR & a putt taken from fringe & off are not counted as putts, but as a shot in its own right.

I'm with you...

 

[Leftie]

Going back to the OP.... If it's on the green, it's a putt. If it's not on the green, it's a missed green.

Simple

Dear me people do get a little wound up over a simple disagreement???
..........
but its not me who comes back with the childish comments posted by those who are clearly hurt by anothers disagreement and as usually follows, the collective snide remarks of meaningless critique of a person rather than objective comment based on the subject matter. If you dont understand whats being posted dont answwer it. Grow up.

Errrrmmm. How does that go again????

 

[HartleyHare]

As regards the did you intend on sinking the shot with a putter from off the green is imiterial, as even chips from off the green we can intend on sinking. Hell, we would all love to sink shots out of bunkers with any club. I've actually played a local course where all the members use putter to get out of the bunker the sand is that bad.

I wouldn't say it's exactly immaterial Cerrunos, it's more down to likelihood or percentages.
if you're just off the green and the flag is say 7ft in you know it's not out of the realms of any golfer to sink it.
on the other hand a chip from 10 foot off or a shot out of a greenside bunker is technically much more difficult and as a result even for an advanced golfer has a lot less of a chance of finishing in the cup.

it may be officially not a putt from off the green but if i've hit it with the intention of sinking it I'd count that as a putt, from my POV.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Jezz,

See, its the voice of reason and sense that does it. We are not use to these sagely inputs and it throws our tiny world out of kilter. Please return centre stage again soon

 

[haplesshacker]

Exits stage left under cover of darkness vowing never again to express an opinion or get involved in any posts of this nature, and to stick to just writing stuff for the mag...!

True to his word Jezz does exactly that in this months issue.

The big advantage of being the journolist, presenter, radio DJ, news reader, etc, is that you can always have the last word!

Glad that the whole debate has given you material for your column Jezz.

Next.