Putting a new ball into play

[ademac]

Yes, although I would suggest working on your putting.

In practice, one shot penalty, then presumably unlikely to hole the putt given how hard it was first time, so probably two putt.

Miss, bunker shot out somewhere on the green, two putt so no different in end result but I suggest this second option is how the game is better played. Plus you could hole the bunker shot and then you've cost yourself a shot at least.

But if really difficult bunker shot, you may think it's the better route.

I did not know that, I thought the ball had to be lost.
I'm not sure I would be comfortable taking that option to be honest.
Waa only asking out of interest by the way. My putting is superb.

 

[backwoodsman]

I find that a bit distasteful - if, again, within the rules!

I can rememmber watching a match between John Daly and someone else (can't remember) at St Andrews (10th) where Daly had hit a reasonable shot and his opponent had hacked it into the really nasty stuff left! His 'Provisional' ended up a couple of feet from the pin. Daly never even considered looking for his opponent's 1st! The hole was halved!

Perhaps i phrased poorly ...

I have never had an opponent in matchplay who insisted on looking for a ball l didn't want found. (I agree, I think that would be poor form)

But occasionally one has had a playing partner who thinks they are being helpful - along lines of "I'll have a quick look for you - I'm sure we can find it". Which is when the reminder is needed along lines of "No, I really, really, don't want to find it so please don't look..." (and depending on who it is, I may spice up the phraseology ...)

 

[ScienceBoy]

I recall one forum meet I had a 9 or something left to the green. Pure out and out shank into a bush. Decided to play from original position, playing 4th shot instead of 3rd. I stuck it to a few feet and walked off with my two points.

I would have had to play backwards at best, even after dropping around the bushes, glad I made the choice there.

Its one of the most underutilised and best rules to use to your benefit.

 

[Kellfire]

I have never had an opponent in matchplay who insisted on looking for a ball l didn't want found. (I agree, I think that would be poor form)

Why would it be poor form for them to try and beat you?

I think it's poor form for you to cast aspersions on someone for absolutely no reason.

 

[Orikoru]

Why would it be poor form for them to try and beat you?

I think it's poor form for you to cast aspersions on someone for absolutely no reason.

Think it would come under bad sportsmanship personally.

 

[duncan mackie]

Perhaps i phrased poorly ...

I have never had an opponent in matchplay who insisted on looking for a ball l didn't want found. (I agree, I think that would be poor form)

But occasionally one has had a playing partner who thinks they are being helpful - along lines of "I'll have a quick look for you - I'm sure we can find it". Which is when the reminder is needed along lines of "No, I really, really, don't want to find it so please don't look..." (and depending on who it is, I may spice up the phraseology ...)

I might suggest that any bad form would be on the player who declares a provisional, knocks it miles down the middle and immediately states he is no longer interested in the first ball....(which is, of course, as within the rules as the opponent looking for your first ball is &#128512. Both players are acting within the rules in their best interests as they see them - I make this point because if the opponent can find your first ball quickly it stands to reason that you would probably be in a position to play it and be better off than you well positioned second ball.

 

[Kellfire]

Think it would come under bad sportsmanship personally.

I disagree. If one player wants to use the rules to avoid a bad outcome in a match (playing a provisional) then their opponent has every right to use the rules to ensure that bad outcome.

It's a match and both sides should be trying to win.

 

[Orikoru]

I might suggest that any bad form would be on the player who declares a provisional, knocks it miles down the middle and immediately states he is no longer interested in the first ball....(which is, of course, as within the rules as the opponent looking for your first ball is &#128512. Both players are acting within the rules in their best interests as they see them - I make this point because if the opponent can find your first ball quickly it stands to reason that you would probably be in a position to play it and be better off than you well positioned second ball.

Imagine a scenario where your opponent is using the full five minutes to look for your ball though, haha - would look a bit petty I think. Genuine question, if you run to your provisional and hit your next shot are they no longer able to locate your first ball?? Or could they still find it after that and you'd still have to go back to it despite having hit your next shot with the provisional?? I'm thinking even if you've hit the provisional twice it's still provisional so you'd have to go back for the first ball if he found it in 5 mins?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Poor form, bad sportsmanship, really? Surely if playing by the rules they are doing nothing wrong.

 

[Orikoru]

I disagree. If one player wants to use the rules to avoid a bad outcome in a match (playing a provisional) then their opponent has every right to use the rules to ensure that bad outcome.

It's a match and both sides should be trying to win.

True it doesn't break any rules of course. Perhaps 'gamesmanship' is more accurate than 'bad sportsmanship'. Sort of like going down under minimal contact to win a penalty and win a football match, some wouldn't have a problem with it, others would say it's not the spirit of the game.

 

[Slab]

Imagine a scenario where your opponent is using the full five minutes to look for your ball though, haha - would look a bit petty I think. Genuine question, if you run to your provisional and hit your next shot are they no longer able to locate your first ball?? Or could they still find it after that and you'd still have to go back to it despite having hit your next shot with the provisional?? I'm thinking even if you've hit the provisional twice it's still provisional so you'd have to go back for the first ball if he found it in 5 mins?

All depends on whether your second hit at the provisional is beyond the spot where your first ball is likely to be

So your opponent is searching and you're heading to the provisional:

If provisional first shot stopped shorter than the likely location of your first ball then your second hit is at a ball that's still a provisional
If your second hit at provisional is from a spot further than the likely location of your first ball then that second hit changes the provisional to be the ball in play

 

[Kellfire]

Imagine a scenario where your opponent is using the full five minutes to look for your ball though, haha - would look a bit petty I think. Genuine question, if you run to your provisional and hit your next shot are they no longer able to locate your first ball?? Or could they still find it after that and you'd still have to go back to it despite having hit your next shot with the provisional?? I'm thinking even if you've hit the provisional twice it's still provisional so you'd have to go back for the first ball if he found it in 5 mins?

Once you have made a further stroke at your provisional ball without declaring it a provisional, or from beyond where your original ball is likely to be, it is now the ball in play and the original cannot be played. Just go and hit that provisional before the original is found, and then you're fine. But if it is found within the five minutes and before you have struck your provisional ball again, meeting the criteria above, you must go to it and identify it and treat it as the ball in play if it is indeed your original ball.

 

[bobmac]

Imagine a scenario where your opponent is using the full five minutes to look for your ball though, haha - would look a bit petty I think. Genuine question, if you run to your provisional and hit your next shot are they no longer able to locate your first ball?? Or could they still find it after that and you'd still have to go back to it despite having hit your next shot with the provisional?? I'm thinking even if you've hit the provisional twice it's still provisional so you'd have to go back for the first ball if he found it in 5 mins?

Depends where you hit your second/third/fourth etc shot from.
If you hit your provisional ball from somewhere nearer the hole than where you expect your first ball to be, then the first ball is lost.

 

[bobmac]

Once you have made a further stroke at your provisional ball without declaring it a provisional, or from beyond where your original ball is likely to be, it is now the ball in play and the original cannot be played. Just go and hit that provisional before the original is found, and then you're fine. But if it is found within the five minutes and before you have struck your provisional ball again, meeting the criteria above, you must go to it and identify it and treat it as the ball in play if it is indeed your original ball.

Confused

 

[Orikoru]

All depends on whether your second hit at the provisional is beyond the spot where your first ball is likely to be

So your opponent is searching and you're heading to the provisional:

If provisional first shot stopped shorter than the likely location of your first ball then your second hit is at a ball that's still a provisional
If your second hit at provisional is from a spot further than the likely location of your first ball then that second hit changes the provisional to be the ball in play

Still coming up with madcap scenarios in my head, this has now conjured an image of one player racing towards his provisional ball so he can hit it again before his opponents finds his first ball! Said opponent is also sprinting towards the bushes to prevent this of course. :rofl: Rules can be funny sometimes.

 

[Imurg]

Poor form, bad sportsmanship, really? Surely if playing by the rules they are doing nothing wrong.

True
But I always ask Fragger's if we're looking for his ball before going to look for it.
If he says "no, leave it" then I will.
And I'd expect anyone I was playing with, in the same situation, to honour my request to not look.
Call it Sportsmanship or just simple good manners but if they don't want to look, I'm not looking either.

 

[Slab]

Still coming up with madcap scenarios in my head, this has now conjured an image of one player racing towards his provisional ball so he can hit it again before his opponents finds his first ball! Said opponent is also sprinting towards the bushes to prevent this of course. :rofl: Rules can be funny sometimes.

Now try imaging its a par 3 and your first is in kludge but your provisional is on the lip of the hole for a tap in 4, while your opponent put their first into a pot-bunker

Now see how fast can you run!

 

[Foxholer]

... a further stroke at your provisional ball without declaring it a provisional...

This makes no sense!

Once you have made a further stroke at your provisional ball from beyond where your original ball is likely to be, it is now the ball in play and the original cannot be played....

I think the above is likely to be what you really mean.

Simply hiting the Provisional a 2nd time does not automatically mean it's the ball in play. It's when you've hit it from a position past where your original is likely to be that it 'automatically' becomes the ball in play!

 

[Kellfire]

This makes no sense!



I think the above is likely to be what you really mean.

Simply hiting the Provisional a 2nd time does not automatically mean it's the ball in play. It's when you've hit it from a position past where your original is likely to be that it 'automatically' becomes the ball in play!

I blame lack of sleep.

 

[duncan mackie]

Now try imaging its a par 3 and your first is in kludge but your provisional is on the lip of the hole for a tap in 4, while your opponent put their first into a pot-bunker

Now see how fast can you run!

Even better would be if you had holed your provisional. ...