Public sector strikes

[hovis]

Why do you guys think you are something special? Stop making up silly examples of what might happen and be honest that this is all about Money and putting your feet up early.

Silly examples? Are you stupid? We're fireman! Making rescues in gas tight suits and house fires of 700 degrees is what we do. No silly examples there!

And as for putting my feet up and money, well your just full of it. Im happy to work until
65. I just dont want to be sacked when i cant complete their impossible fitness test

 

[Foxholer]

Brigade and Paramedics should be combined like in other countries.

Daft suggestion imo.

Completely different sets of skills. Occasional intersection at callouts - but that's like treating Brickies and Sparkies as the same!

 

[hovis]

Daft suggestion imo.

Completely different sets of skills. Occasional intersection at callouts - but that's like treating Brickies and Sparkies as the same!

They're looking for us to drive ambulances and also mobilise us to heart attack victims as we're all defib trained. Plus they dont care as long as they get a form of response within 8 minutes so they can tick a box for their figures

 

[Foxholer]

They're looking for us to drive ambulances and also mobilise us to heart attack victims as we're all defib trained. Plus they dont care as long as they get a form of response within 8 minutes so they can tick a box for their figures

The staff in many Golf half-way huts are defib trained - and can probably drive too! Would you want them as 1st responders?

You are right - it's a box-ticking exercise, not a quality driven one. And quality probably saves more lives than marginal response times!

 

[SocketRocket]

Daft suggestion imo.

Completely different sets of skills. Occasional intersection at callouts - but that's like treating Brickies and Sparkies as the same!

It's not daft, it works perfectly well in the USA. Firefighters and Paramedics work together in fire crews. If they are called out to a RTA then they have the paramedics on board the pump. Doing it this way creates a better service and opens up career opportunities and skills to the Firefighters. I'm not talking about a Firefighter with a first aid kit.

 

[hovis]

It's not daft, it works perfectly well in the USA. Firefighters and Paramedics work together in fire crews. If they are called out to a RTA then they have the paramedics on board the pump. Doing it this way creates a better service and opens up career opportunities and skills to the Firefighters. I'm not talking about a Firefighter with a first aid kit.

Its a great idea to work as one. However the training is minimum of 2 years and i cant see the government paying for the courses. I for one would love to be trained to such a level but ambulance/taxi driver i think is all I'm gonna get

Oh and they would have to then pay ff's a basic paramedics salary too. More chance on winning the lottery

 

[SocketRocket]

Its a great idea to work as one. However the training is minimum of 2 years and i cant see the government paying for the courses. I for one would love to be trained to such a level but ambulance/taxi driver i think is all I'm gonna get

Oh and they would have to then pay ff's a basic paramedics salary too. More chance on winning the lottery

It works perfectly well in other countries and can work here. I happen to have a relative in the USA who is a FF Paramedic and he has progressed to the the assistant Fire Chief in his precinct.

 

[SocketRocket]

Silly examples? Are you stupid? We're fireman! Making rescues in gas tight suits and house fires of 700 degrees is what we do. No silly examples there!

And as for putting my feet up and money, well your just full of it. Im happy to work until
65. I just dont want to be sacked when i cant complete their impossible fitness test

I dont suggest that your job is arduous at times and respect the job you do. I am rather suggesting that this dispute is about unaffordable conditions of employment and the want to retire at a relatively young age. The fears you bring are fairly unrealistic and quite probably will not be effected.

 

[hovis]

It works perfectly well in other countries and can work here. I happen to have a relative in the USA who is a FF Paramedic and he has progressed to the the assistant Fire Chief in his precinct.

Like i said, its a great idea. It would be welcomed.

The americans make me laugh "assistant chief!! " we call tjat a crew manager. One rank above bottom. Sounds good though

 

[hovis]

I dont suggest that your job is arduous at times and respect the job you do. I am rather suggesting that this dispute is about unaffordable conditions of employment and the want to retire at a relatively young age. The fears you bring are fairly unrealistic and quite probably will not be effected.

For the 5th time. We dont want to retire at an early age
65 is fine. We just want a desk in a corner where we can eat toffie rather than a climb up 3 flights of stairs in full kit whilst holding on to our zimmer frames. The fears i am talking about that you say are unrealistic are founded by the governments own findings
And they even sugar coated them

 

[SocketRocket]

Like i said, its a great idea. It would be welcomed.

The americans make me laugh "assistant chief!! " we call tjat a crew manager. One rank above bottom. Sounds good though

No its not. He is an Assistant Chief Officer, thats not someone who rides on the pump. Look at this Job add for this position offering a salary of $141K

https://www.jobaps.com/ldn/sup/BulPreview.asp?R1=15&R2=F810&R3=004

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So its OK in your eyes if he's 55 then. Why not push for retirement at 40? Many Firefighters are not fit at 35 but they are not being put out of work.

60 is the full retirement age for the armed forces and Police. Why do you guys think you are something special? Stop making up silly examples of what might happen and be honest that this is all about Money and putting your feet up early.

If you were on the old pension schemes you can still retire at the age of 55 in the military - it's only people joining after April 2015 ( I think that's the date ) that can work up until age 60 but only certain ranks and jobs will do that.

 

[scottbrown]

One thing i think its safe to say....david cameron and his clowns ent going to win another term

I think you may then be surprised as most of the country sees no viable alternative. The Labour Party are currently a joke and the lib demos, we'll say no more. So what's that leave? BNP? uKIP? Can't see them in government.

 

[Foxholer]

It works perfectly well in other countries and can work here. I happen to have a relative in the USA who is a FF Paramedic and he has progressed to the the assistant Fire Chief in his precinct.

Lots of things work 'perfectly well' in other countries that don't work well here - and vice-versa!

That's almost always because the entire system/culture is rather different - and will no doubt have its own issues - cost/logistics being an obvious one. The simple fact that the Hospital/2nd Support systems are totally different between US and UK means they will very likely have different requirements.

Have a read of this article. http://aace.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Fighting-the-Fire-article.pdf

It also documents how the paramedics came to be in the US Fire service - it wasn't out of choice! But a pretty logical - and effective - way to implement the edict, given the structure that existed!

Co-ordination of specialists is the key in UK imo - not Combination. Though that doesn't mean there wouldn't be instances/cases where 'Joint' services would be an improvement - servicing 'remote' populations for example.

 

[Old Skier]

60 is the full retirement age for the armed forces.

Most members of the army go after 10-12 year mark (hence the need to keep recruiting even during massive cuts) a few stay untill the 22 year point which is when the majority will be made to retire. There are a limited amount of OR jobs that allow you to stay untill 55-60. Most posts that where available are now being filled with a civvie cheaper option.

Thats unless your in the jobs for the boys brigade (Col upward and are filling main building and a lot of other posts that actually dont need filling).

 

[Old Skier]

If you were on the old pension schemes you can still retire at the age of 55 in the military - it's only people joining after April 2015 ( I think that's the date ) that can work up until age 60 but only certain ranks and jobs will do that.

New pension scheme came into effect around 2004/2005. Many were moved over to this with preserved rights for those that served prior to this.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

New pension scheme came into effect around 2004/2005. Many were moved over to this with preserved rights for those that served prior to this.

I'll reword it - currently there are two pension schemes in the military - the ones who joined up before 2005 ( the one I was on ) and then the one for people after 2005 - the changes with those schemes were all about when you get your lump sum and changes in monthly payments to people etc - everyone after 2005 automatically went on that scheme and people before had a choice to move across. Both schemes had the same retirement age.

Now in 2015 there is a new pension scheme which is based on average salary over the years ( as opposed to final ) and also increases the retirement age up from 55 to 60

 

[Old Skier]

Lots of things work 'perfectly well' in other countries that don't work well here - and vice-versa!

Trouble is people dont look at this in the round. Most blood wagons - if your lucky - may have I fully trained paramedic on bpard with a blue light trained driver and someone who may be undergoing higher 1st responce/paramedic training.

A very easy transferable skill which could be a starting point. The biggest block to this has been the unions so on that point Hovis I think firemen need a seriouse chat with their well paid reps.

I do however agree with you on the ability of a large number of people after they pass their 50s to be able to run around in full kit doing what is a very physically demanding job. However, the physical test element is a must with firemen realising that it is their responsability to maintain a standard that allows them to do their work untill a reasonable age with out unions getting involved when members fail and are sacked.

 

[Old Skier]

Now in 2015 there is a new pension scheme which is based on average salary over the years ( as opposed to final ) and also increases the retirement age up from 55 to 60

Fair point, however, very few of the 80,000 left in the army will have an option to get past their 22 year point.

 

[chrisd]

Just wondering, with shift patterns, holidays etc, can I ask how many weeks in the year do regular firemen work, taking 5 days as a regular week so as not to be confused?