Public sector strikes

[Foxholer]

My only intended contribution to this - as an ex civil servant turned IT Contractor whose ex was a very good (inspirational) anti-union Teacher.

The good teachers are not paid well enough, but that's because the system doesn't weed out the unsuccessful (if not downright bad) ones well/fast enough.

NHS Nurses are the most down-trodden, abused, over-worked, underpaid section of the workforce!

MPs should have accepted the 11% pay rise - and the associated constraints/restrictions - recommended by the independent body. It was just such a fear of reaction - by Maggie - that led to the expenses scandal. They are underpaid and should be linked to a group of 'equivalent' positions elsewhere in industry. Expenses should be reasonable but anyone who abuses the system should be 'sacked' as happens elsewhere! Self regulation does not work with the sort of folk that become politicians!

And Maggie was as much to blame for the demise of 'British Industry' - at least in the Midlands and North as anyone!

Just like many seem to be saying about what the FA needs to do....the German 'unity and purpose' model seems much more successful than the British 'cheap and confrontational' one!

I believe Unions do have a place and they have done, and are doing, hugely beneficial things for their members - even though I don' agree with some of them. But they are naturally very resistant to change! And modern working needs a reasonable flexible workforce. Both Unions and Companies need to recognise that working together produces better results for everybody!

 

[6inchcup]

Unions fight for and protect hard won workers rights.

Worth remembering when you take your paid holidays or are dismissed unfairly, discriminated against etc. The Torys would have us working eight days a week, 28 hours a day and paying them for the privilege, the unions will try and make sure that doesn't happen.

i can see the maths lesson didnt go to well under LIEBORE in your neck of the woods then.

 

[c1973]

i can see the maths lesson didnt go to well under LIEBORE in your neck of the woods then.

It was actually a take on the the 4 Yorkshiremen sketch. I can count very well thank you, all the way up to 12 if I use all my fingers......webbed feet means I can't use my toes.

 

[SocketRocket]

Exaggerated? So they didn't win the rights and protections mentioned? Ok then.

Maybe I was wrong but "The Torys would have us working eight days a week, 28 hours a day and paying them for the privilege" just seemed a bit of an exaggeration. Maybe not

 

[Deleted member 15344]

At least this time the firemen are striking for a reason more worthy in regards the age of retirement - no fireman should have to work past the age of 60

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

On R5L this morning when discussing potential new laws on strike ballots - Francis Maude was asked what he had sacrificed over the last few years as we are all in it together. He cited the freeze (or reduction) in his MPs salary. Don't think that was exactly what the interviewer was thinking about. I suspect that in his day-to-day life over the last 5 yrs, Francis Maude has not experienced one iota of reduction in his standard of living.

 

[hovis]

At least this time the firemen are striking for a reason more worthy in regards the age of retirement - no fireman should have to work past the age of 60

Although working past 60 isn't ideal our problem is if we can't work past 60 for physical reasons we want them to give us a desk job. They said no " if you cant ride a fire engine then your sacked"

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Although working past 60 isn't ideal our problem is if we can't work past 60 for physical reasons we want them to give us a desk job. They said no " if you cant ride a fire engine then your sacked"

Yep it's poor.

 

[Papas1982]

Thats fine, we're all in this together. But when a mp claims £35 a day for breakfast i get a tad annoyed

I agree with that fully. I belive at one point they looked into a 'school meals' style function at parliament and decided expenses were cheaper!

 

[SocketRocket]

At least this time the firemen are striking for a reason more worthy in regards the age of retirement - no fireman should have to work past the age of 60

They will be OK then as they don't have to!

 

[SocketRocket]

Although working past 60 isn't ideal our problem is if we can't work past 60 for physical reasons we want them to give us a desk job. They said no " if you cant ride a fire engine then your sacked"

And who exactly is suggesting you work past 60?

 

[SocketRocket]

Unions have a lot to do with improving living conditions for ordinary workers, and the economy benefits gently because working class and lower middle class people spend their money which recirculates many times in the economy. They don't stick it all in trusts in Luxembourg for little Jocasta and Gideon's future.

The Govt trot out this line about 'all being in it together'. What a load of nonsense. Cameron, his Chipping Sodbury set, and the bankers aren't in it at all. Welfare seekers and ordinary public sector workers are bearing the brunt of the austerity and will continue to do so.

Gove was a union activist for the NUJ some years ago. I guess he has now revised his position. His type do well as MPs and Ministers, with a decent salary. well padded expanses and a few directorships, but they work heard to feather a nice nest for later when they can really cash in on their connections and network. It has been joked that being an MP is really an intern position for your real career after. Hypocrites and crooks, one and all, if you ask me. The real disappointment now is that they are now so much the same it really makes no difference which lot (of the main 3) you vote in. Six of one ...

Some green grapes there Ethan, surely MP's should be well paid otherwise it would be a job only for the rich.

Oh! and its Chipping Norton not Chipping Sodbury

 

[hovis]

And who exactly is suggesting you work past 60?

Branden lewis

 

[c1973]

Maybe I was wrong but "The Torys would have us working eight days a week, 28 hours a day and paying them for the privilege" just seemed a bit of an exaggeration. Maybe not

I thought it was obvious that part was jocular, apparently not. Apologies if I missed your acknowledgement of such when I responded.

 

[SocketRocket]

Branden lewis

And where does he say you should work past the age of 60?

Did he not say:

If you are a firefighter not currently protected from the changes, you will retire at 60. This is the same retirement age agreed back in 2006 for members of the New Firefighters’ Pension Scheme 2006, and is the same as for the police and the armed forces.

However, you could still choose to retire from age 55. The Government’s recent offer means that there will be a smaller reduction to your pension if you retire at 55. This offer is currently being considered by the FBU’s Executive Council, and is subject to members agreeing it.

 

[c1973]

Some green grapes there Ethan, surely MP's should be well paid otherwise it would be a job only for the rich.

Agreed. They should receive a decent wage, but a lot of the extras should be done away with. I'm thinking about subsidies to buy 2nd homes which they can sell on and keep all the profit, things like that should be stopped.

 

[c1973]

Most firemen I know have a part time job they work on their days off. Seems like a decent gig tbh. That's not a dig at firemen btw.

I wouldn't support any change that made them work past 60, just as I don't support the raise in retirement age generally (labouring on a building site at 67 anyone?), but equally I would be testing their fitness/ability to do the job on a regular basis. If they didn't pass muster they'd be out on their ear. Same with the police. They have the assurance of a secure job and half decent pension, part of the deal should be they retain a high level of fitness.

 

[hovis]

Most firemen I know have a part time job they work on their days off. Seems like a decent gig tbh. That's not a dig at firemen btw.

I wouldn't support any change that made them work past 60, just as I don't support the raise in retirement age generally (labouring on a building site at 67 anyone?), but equally I would be testing their fitness/ability to do the job on a regular basis. If they didn't pass muster they'd be out on their ear. Same with the police. They have the assurance of a secure job and half decent pension, part of the deal should be they retain a high level of fitness.

Why do you think they have another job? £1580 a month after pension payment ent alot of money. Who wants to work on a day off!

 

[scottbrown]

The one thing I do agree with is that MPs are under paid for the level they operate at. An mp earns ( basic) summit like 60k, cabinet circa 80k. I bet anyone here who works for a business that employs more than 100 people, the CEO /md / etc all earn more than that.
Yet how many CEOs are making decisions each day that can cost trillions of pounds pa?

However, my view of the public sector and where I do have some sympathy. Things like pensions where part of the reason a lot of people joined the public sector compared to private. So to change for all is always going to be a tough one. Maybe a fairer way would be to implement the change for new starters, however this obviously creates a 2 tier system.

As for the political steer, like Cameron or not. He is doing something. Brown and Blair buried their heads and continued to borrow rather than upset the public ( and the unions who pretty much fund the Labour Party)

 

[hovis]

And where does he say you should work past the age of 60?

Did he not say:

If you are a firefighter not currently protected from the changes, you will retire at 60. This is the same retirement age agreed back in 2006 for members of the New Firefighters’ Pension Scheme 2006, and is the same as for the police and the armed forces.

However, you could still choose to retire from age 55. The Government’s recent offer means that there will be a smaller reduction to your pension if you retire at 55. This offer is currently being considered by the FBU’s Executive Council, and is subject to members agreeing it.

You live in wales or Scotland by any chance?

To get my full pension i have to serve 35 years. That would take me to 65. Before i had the option to down tools operationally and get a job elsewhere within the organisation. That option is no longer available.

Oh and retire at 55 and loose a small amount of my pension? Its almost half. BTW i have since left my pension and investing my money in my propertys instead