Provisional(s)

[rulie]

Here's a situation that I heard of yesterday. A 10 year old boy, playing in his first junior competition, plays his ball from the first tee. The ball goes into a heavily grassed area. The boy properly declares a provisional ball that he hits out of bounds, then properly declares a second provisional that goes down the fairway. He does find his original ball, but is told by two adult spectators that he must not play the original and must continue with the second provisional ball. He argues a bit but then picks up the original and continues play with the second provisional. He reports all of this to the Committee in the scoring tent. How should/must the Committee rule?

 

[crdb]

Same thing happened to me, I was 5 off the tee on the first hole, 3rd tee shot went fairway, but found the first 2 & was allowed to play my first.

This was a medal comp too, playing partners were happy for me to carry on with the first.

 

[rulefan]

There is only one ball in play at a time.

 

[rulie]

There is only one ball in play at a time.

And?

 

[Crow]

Tough luck, score stands, in future don't listen to adults if you believe that you're correct.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Tough luck, score stands, in future don't listen to adults if you believe that you're correct.

I suspect it is this. Once he picked the ball up he was stuffed.

If this actually happened, shame on the adults concerned.

 

[Crow]

I suspect it is this. Once he picked the ball up he was stuffed.

If this actually happened, shame on the adults concerned.

I guess it's one of those cases where the boy should have proceeded to hole out with both balls and nominate which was his first choice for the score.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

If he found his original ball within the 3 minutes allowed. The two adults should be publicly named and shamed, made to apologise to the junior and never allowed near a junior comp again. I’d be having a word with the club welfare officer.

They shouldn’t be making rules decisions if they are there to spectate. Did they by any chance have their own children playing in the same competition?

 

[nickjdavis]

Once he found his original ball, the 2nd provisional was not in play.

The moment he played his "2nd provisional" he has played a wrong ball and should have corrected his mistake and gone back to the tee to play what would essentially be his 7th shot....plus the 2 shot penalty for playing a wrong ball....he should therefore have been playing 9 off the tee. To allow him to continue with his 2nd provisional meant he was playing his 6th stroke, from a position far in advance of where he would have played his 9th stroke (the tee)....he therefore gained a significant advantage by doing so and should therefore have been DQ'd.


Edit: Scores I've written above are tosh as I forgot that the two provisionals are irrelevant in terms of the strokes taken....corrected in a later post (that the joy of trying to work, build a couple of golf clubs and answer a rules scenario all at the same time!!). Still a DQ at the end of the day though.

 

[Radbourne2010]

Here's a situation that I heard of yesterday. A 10 year old boy, playing in his first junior competition, plays his ball from the first tee. The ball goes into a heavily grassed area. The boy properly declares a provisional ball that he hits out of bounds, then properly declares a second provisional that goes down the fairway. He does find his original ball, but is told by two adult spectators that he must not play the original and must continue with the second provisional ball. He argues a bit but then picks up the original and continues play with the second provisional. He reports all of this to the Committee in the scoring tent. How should/must the Committee rule?

Pretty simple. He can play the Provisional ball right up to where the 1st ball in lying. If he identifies the 1st ball he can quite happily play that ball as normal. Poor boy. That said, there is an R&A Rules App that most people have on their phones.

 

[nickjdavis]

Pretty simple. He can play the Provisional ball right up to where the 1st ball in lying. If he identifies the 1st ball he can quite happily play that ball as normal. Poor boy. That said, there is an R&A Rules App that most people have on their phones.

The wording of the op suggests that he found his original ball before playing the 2nd provisional...which should therefore have been abandoned.

 

[Radbourne2010]

The wording of the op suggests that he found his original ball before playing the 2nd provisional...which should therefore have been abandoned.

So he didn’t play two Provisionals off the Tee? If he did, he is entitled to play the 1st ball, if found within 3 minutes AFTER he gets to the area to look for it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So first ball found before the 2nd provisional was played? I’d say the 2nd provisional is a new ball in play. Saying the word ‘provisional’ is surely irrelevant if the position of the first ball is known precisely.

 

[nickjdavis]

So he didn’t play two Provisionals off the Tee? If he did, he is entitled to play the 1st ball, if found within 3 minutes AFTER he gets to the area to look for it.

Yes he did play two Provisionals off the tee...and yes he was entitled to play the first ball when it was found. What i meant was he found his ball before making a stroke at the 2nd provisional ball (which lay in the middle of the fairway).

So first ball found before the 2nd provisional was played? I’d say the 2nd provisional is a new ball in play. Saying the word ‘provisional’ is surely irrelevant if the position of the first ball is known precisely.

No. Thats not what I said and it was not what was said in the OP.

 

[backwoodsman]

I'm assuming it was strokeplay? He should have played the original ball - but didn't. So he played a ball from a wrong place.(Or is it a wrong ball?). Presumably he then didn’t correct anything and because he played from a significantly advantageous place I'm assuming it's a DQ. And a damn good kicking to the people who gave him the wrong advice

 

[Whereditgo]

Pretty simple. He can play the Provisional ball right up to where the 1st ball in lying. If he identifies the 1st ball he can quite happily play that ball as normal. Poor boy. That said, there is an R&A Rules App that most people have on their phones.

A 10 year old boy in his first competition and given rules advice by 2 adult spectators.......to imply that he could have checked for himself is a bit harsh me thinks?

 

[nickjdavis]

Actually the 2nd and 3rd balls are utterly irrelevant to his score because they are abandoned the moment he finds his original ball. Still reckon its a DQ for playing a wrong ball and gaining a significant advantage and not correcting the mistake.

Original ball off the tee - 1st stroke
Penalty for moving a ball at rest - 2nd stroke
Stroke at wrong ball...2 penalty shots, stroke not counted - 3rd and 4th strokes
Should have gone back to the tee to play his 5th stroke

 

[nickjdavis]

I'm assuming it was strokeplay? He should have played the original ball - but didn't. So he played a ball from a wrong place.(Or is it a wrong ball?). Presumably he then didn’t correct anything and because he played from a significantly advantageous place I'm assuming it's a DQ. And a damn good kicking to the people who gave him the wrong advice

definitely the kicking!!!!

 

[rulefan]

And?

Providing his original (presumably) was found within 3 minutes, it remains as his ball in play not withstanding any Provisionals he may have hit. He must play his 'ball in play'

 

[nickjdavis]

Providing his original (presumably) was found within 3 minutes, it remains as his ball in play not withstanding any Provisionals he may have hit. He must play his 'ball in play'

But he didnt, he went and continued play with his 2nd provisional....the question is... how should the committee have ruled?