Pronouns

[rosecott]

I am really really sorry to have started this thread.

I was just a bit amused - or bemused - by the emerging need to declare a pronoun when you sign anything.

For the record, I am happy to address anyone by whatever is their wish.

 

[Papas1982]

I'll happily call someone them or they.

That's about as far as I'll go if I'm honest.


That leaves, m/f/other.
I dont see why the "other" needs multiple options.

I'm sure it's been said somewhere in the thread, but the only time that M or F should be the only options are on medical forms.

totally against any one competing in sport ones they've changed gender, which so far I have only seen when the change is M to F (unsurprisingly)!

 

[SocketRocket]

Perhaps not an intelligent reply but, simply, why not? Does it really hurt you to acknowledge someone else’s definition of themselves? If I was some govt job’s worth I might argue the toss but is it really important to the man in the street?

No, it doesn't hurt me but if I speak to a person who has gender preferences then I can't be expected to know unless they have made it known previously.

 

[SocketRocket]

Because it’s demonstrable that they aren’t from Kronos or Mars.

It's also demonstrable what sex you are. Very few people have problems with people defining how they wish their sexuality to be addressed but it seems more sexuality changers have problems with people who aren't interested what they think, and why should they care.

 

[Ethan]

Just showed this thread to my daughter who identifies as female, and has several friends who are "fluid" in their choices.

She just shook her head and said its a lot of middle aged/ old men who just dont get it and probably never will

i tend to agree

Well, that's fine, but she will realise one day that the view of the world that young people have is not always correct either.

Gender has a range of categorical definitions. Genetic/chromosomal/biological is one, and in that definition, XX is female, XY male, simple as that. The XXs generally possess a uterus and ovaries, the XY some other stuff. Your daughter's friends chromosomal gender is not fluid, no matter how much they want it to be, it is fixed.

What does she mean by gender anyway? If she has a socio-cultural definition, that is fine, but it doesn't mean others are wrong in the terms in which they see it. When a celeb says they consider themselves gender-fluid, how do they know? They have only ever know what they have always been, they don't know what it means to be another gender.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Where does Caster Semenya fit into that equation? Outwardly, physically a female but with a naturally elevated testosterone level…

As far as I’m concerned, she’s a female athlete, with a natural advantage over her rivals. Much as Thorpe had bigger hands, Phelps a bigger wingspan and Indurain a bigger heart.

 

[Ethan]

As far as I’m concerned, she’s a female athlete, with a natural advantage over her rivals. Much as Thorpe had bigger hands, Phelps a bigger wingspan and Indurain a bigger heart.

There are a few people who have atypical chromosomes, XXY, for example, these have a male phenotype, are usually very tall and thin and are usually infertile. Some are diagnosed because of their characteristic phenotype, others aren't.

Semanya is essentially intersex, with a female phenotype, although somewhat on the masculine end of the spectrum, XY (male) chromosomes but no functioning gonads of either type. She has higher levels of testosterone than are allowed for females, so has to take medicines to suppress the level. She is therefore genetically male but not physically or physiologically male and self identifies as female. She is a rare case, but illustrates some of the complexities of the issue.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

There are a few people who have atypical chromosomes, XXY, for example, these have a male phenotype, are usually very tall and thin and are usually infertile. Some are diagnosed because of their characteristic phenotype, others aren't.

Semanya is essentially intersex, with a female phenotype, although somewhat on the masculine end of the spectrum, XY (male) chromosomes but no functioning gonads of either type. She has higher levels of testosterone than are allowed for females, so has to take medicines to suppress the level. She is therefore genetically male but not physically or physiologically male and self identifies as female. She is a rare case, but illustrates some of the complexities of the issue.

As I say, as far as I’m concerned she’s a female athlete.