Premier League 2019-2020 we’re off

[Deleted member 15344]

For now. A few more seasons without success/CL then it will/could cripple them.

Thats natural For most businesses , not many are going to be too concerned when they’re winning. They only come under real scrutiny by many when the going gets tough.

I wouldn’t underestimate the power of their commercial model - they have missed CL football before and it didn’t matter , they may stupendous amount of commercial money - and it increases each year - even when they aren’t winning titles they are still one of the most popular worldwide teams , their match day income just increases. They have always managed to sort themselves out commercial - you only have see the last figures they released was a record for them ( think also premier League ).

They just need to appoint the right CEO and manager and the funds are there - that debt will be gone soon enough. I don’t see Man Utd ever being crippled - always manage to pay the big bucks.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

FFP in principal was sound, it was intended to stop Clubs going in to debt and managing on revenue produced by the Club.

Some Clubs have managed that, but not every Club started on a level plane.

It now virtually guarantees any Club getting a sugar daddy and buying success unless they are already established at the top.

Bournemouth for example could never be bought by a multi billionaire and compete with the big boys in the time scale City did it under ffp, but why not? Why shouldn’t they have that opportunity if it came along?

As for the City signed up to the FFP rules, every Club did, they had no choice.

It’d be impoossible to get every team on a level playing field, but I’m sure you agree something had to be done, FFP/Salary Caps etc.

I‘ve questioned FSG at times but there model seems to be a successful one to date, it’s took nearly 10years and many ups and downs though.

Ok we were an established elite club but as a team we were average. It’s proved that with the right strategy though it can work.

I think any team could benefit from a billionaire sugar daddy, Though it would take a longer period to achieve it for a Bournemouth type of club.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Unfortunately, Stu, that started some while ago.

Dont worry Slimey old boy, I’ll crank it up another level or 2 ??

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It’d be impoossible to get every team on a level playing field, but I’m sure you agree something had to be done, FFP/Salary Caps etc.

I‘ve questioned FSG at times but there model seems to be a successful one to date, it’s took nearly 10years and many ups and downs though.

Ok we were an established elite club but as a team we were average. It’s proved that with the right strategy though it can work.

I think any team could benefit from a billionaire sugar daddy, Though it would take a longer period to achieve it for a Bournemouth type of club.

Oh I agree, but think about your starting position and Phil’s comment above, Clubs like RM, Barca, Utd & yourselves have a massive commercial profile that gives an edge.

Let’s imagine a Saudi bought B’Mouth, from a player point of view they could have B’Mouth challenging for CL in 2-3 years with the right buys, money no object etc, but ffp wouldn’t allow it.

There profile would take 10-20yrs to get even a third of the way to meeting the commercial income of the big boys, and could still fail.

The well established big Clubs are somewhat protected by ffp.

 

[PJ87]

Am I wrong in saying both David’s haven’t took a penny out of the club in Dividends/wages?

We’ve had to do that in previous years, Alonso,Torres, Coutinho to name a few. There’s also the FFP rules that are to be adhered to.

They use that as a sound bite to gather support

"What's more, unlike some clubs in the Football League, these loans have carried interest payments, much like money loaned from a bank.

Interest on the money loaned has accrued at between 4-6%, club accounts have revealed.
This means that West Ham were seeing liabilities rise by as much as £3million per year in interest payments due on shareholder loans.
The first loan from Gold and Sullivan came in the 2010/11 season, their first full season in charge, when £3million was wired to the club"

"The 2017/18 season was the tipping point: between August 2017 and August 2018, Gold and Sullivan paid themselves a little under £14.6million in interest owed to them on their loans."

Who needs wages of say half a million a year when you are getting interest payments like this

We have always been well under FFP.

We don't even spend the TV money that comes in fully

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Oh I agree, but think about your starting position and Phil’s comment above, Clubs like RM, Barca, Utd & yourselves have a massive commercial profile that gives an edge.

Let’s imagine a Saudi bought B’Mouth, from a player point of view they could have B’Mouth challenging for CL in 2-3 years with the right buys, money no object etc, but ffp wouldn’t allow it.

There profile would take 10-20yrs to get even a third of the way to meeting the commercial income of the big boys, and could still fail.

The well established big Clubs are somewhat protected by ffp.

It certainly seems that way, but that’s not the clubs Fault.

Don’t forget every club‘s given 3yrs to comply with FFP. So potentially Bournemouth could, with the correct strategy and commercial activity, be the next big club.

Aren’t Everton in a bit of a situation regards their Finances/FFP?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

They use that as a sound bite to gather support

"What's more, unlike some clubs in the Football League, these loans have carried interest payments, much like money loaned from a bank.

Interest on the money loaned has accrued at between 4-6%, club accounts have revealed.
This means that West Ham were seeing liabilities rise by as much as £3million per year in interest payments due on shareholder loans.
The first loan from Gold and Sullivan came in the 2010/11 season, their first full season in charge, when £3million was wired to the club"

"The 2017/18 season was the tipping point: between August 2017 and August 2018, Gold and Sullivan paid themselves a little under £14.6million in interest owed to them on their loans."

Who needs wages of say half a million a year when you are getting interest payments like this

We have always been well under FFP.

We don't even spend the TV money that comes in fully

Interesting.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It certainly seems that way, but that’s not the clubs Fault.

Don’t forget every club‘s given 3yrs to comply with FFP. So potentially Bournemouth could, with the correct strategy and commercial activity, be the next big club.

Aren’t Everton in a bit of a situation regards their Finances/FFP?

Everton have voluntarily opened their books to the authorities, but like all Clubs they’ll be trying to dodge the rules.

 

[PJ87]

Interesting.

One year they borrowed money in a loan against season ticket sales to buy a player in January

Yet still took their payments

So use the club as a money maker

We always seem to loan to buy... Which is fine .. people have to do that. However they use as excuse to under invest in the summer

For example we bought a midfielder in on loan. If we buy in summer that will come out summer budget

Bowen was a summer target but others got interested so forced their hand. That will be a summer budget buy

Randolph ... Boro owed us money on him so that will be his fee

Lots of smoke and mirrors ..

 

[Deleted member 15344]

One year they borrowed money in a loan against season ticket sales to buy a player in January

Yet still took their payments

So use the club as a money maker

We always seem to loan to buy... Which is fine .. people have to do that. However they use as excuse to under invest in the summer

For example we bought a midfielder in on loan. If we buy in summer that will come out summer budget

Bowen was a summer target but others got interested so forced their hand. That will be a summer budget buy

Randolph ... Boro owed us money on him so that will be his fee

Lots of smoke and mirrors ..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....gold-david-moyes-relegation-a9306591.html?amp

West Ham don’t earn the level of money both on and off the pitch to allow them to “invest” to the level that West Ham fans expect - the club is financially sound at the moment but they need to stay in the Prem - do the fans expect the owners to start to buy players from their own pocket ?

 

[PJ87]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....gold-david-moyes-relegation-a9306591.html?amp

West Ham don’t earn the level of money both on and off the pitch to allow them to “invest” to the level that West Ham fans expect - the club is financially sound at the moment but they need to stay in the Prem - do the fans expect the owners to start to buy players from their own pocket ?

https://talksport.com/football/3763...ned-tv-and-their-final-position-180518283150/

100 m plus

Low running costs for not owning a stadium
...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://talksport.com/football/3763...ned-tv-and-their-final-position-180518283150/

100 m plus

Low running costs for not owning a stadium
...

a club needs more than telly income to pay the wages and fees - did West Ham make a profit last year ? Nope they will make a loss I believe so where is the funds for investment going to come from ?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ue-survival-financial-necessity-sullivan-gold

The fans expect the team to be challenging around the top 6 -

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Everton have voluntarily opened their books to the authorities, but like all Clubs they’ll be trying to dodge the rules.

I heard someone mention £109m deficit iirc

 

[PJ87]

a club needs more than telly income to pay the wages and fees - did West Ham make a profit last year ? Nope they will make a loss I believe so where is the funds for investment going to come from ?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ue-survival-financial-necessity-sullivan-gold

The fans expect the team to be challenging around the top 6 -

As normal Phil you have missed the point by thinking you know everything .. not uncommon

The fans don't expect top 6 at all. We were promised champions League within 5 seasons of them taking over. What we expect is to be not constantly battling for bottom 6.

A clear transfer policy would be another expectation

We sign random players who don't seem to be a fit for who we bought the week before.

Haller is a prime example. He's a class striker. Works great in a 2 or 3

So we buy him to play up top by himself. Yet wonder why it doesn't work.

Did the same to Hernandez

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I heard someone mention £109m deficit iirc

The only noises mate are coming from those outside the Club who may or may not have ulterior motives.

What amazes me now is how we as fans have these discussions on a Clubs finance! Gone are the days when all we worried about is who we’re going sign and if we can 2/3 points from the next game.
Most noises about ffp come from opposition fans and some of it to me is jealousy and the fear of the status quo being rocked.

So long as it’s not illegal I don’t care were Clubs get their money.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

As normal Phil you have missed the point by thinking you know everything .. not uncommon

The fans don't expect top 6 at all. We were promised champions League within 5 seasons of them taking over. What we expect is to be not constantly battling for bottom 6.

A clear transfer policy would be another expectation

We sign random players who don't seem to be a fit for who we bought the week before.

Haller is a prime example. He's a class striker. Works great in a 2 or 3

So we buy him to play up top by himself. Yet wonder why it doesn't work.

Did the same to Hernandez

Stick to Hockey ?

That has to be the fault of the MD/CEO for the lack of transfer policy.

Some of these money men think it’s easy buying players.

 

[PJ87]

Stick to Hockey ?

That has to be the fault of the MD/CEO for the lack of transfer policy.

Some of these money men think it’s easy buying players.

Sullivan appointed himself as director of football because he loves to play championship manager

We get someone in to be director football. Doesn't work out as he isn't given full financial support .. he wants X players he's given one of 5 maybe

Sacks him appoints himself again

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As normal Phil you have missed the point by thinking you know everything .. not uncommon

I’m not sure why you feel the need to start digs at posters

The fans don't expect top 6 at all. We were promised champions League within 5 seasons of them taking over. What we expect is to be not constantly battling for bottom 6.

Sorry but heard enough West Ham fans on phone ins etc and even I reckon it will be interesting to see what your expectations were at the start of last season - did you really think promises matched reality ? They have spent money lots of it

A clear transfer policy would be another expectation

We sign random players who don't seem to be a fit for who we bought the week before.

Haller is a prime example. He's a class striker. Works great in a 2 or 3

So we buy him to play up top by himself. Yet wonder why it doesn't work.

Did the same to Hernandez

But this is all football choices as opposed for owners and financial behind the scenes.

It’s all about realistic expectations- there are I believe three levels in the Prem - the top 6 with Everton prob just on the outside - then the middle ground Prem teams which is where I see West Ham and then the teams they will be relegated and battling each season.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

The only noises mate are coming from those outside the Club who may or may not have ulterior motives.

What amazes me now is how we as fans have these discussions on a Clubs finance! Gone are the days when all we worried about is who we’re going sign and if we can 2/3 points from the next game.

So long as it’s not illegal I don’t care were Clubs get their money.

Unfortunately it’s part of modern football now.

It was at the AGM were the £109m deficit came from iirc

Heres the link I’m referring to https://www.skysports.com/football/...but-confident-in-financial-fair-play-position

 

[PJ87]

I’m not sure why you feel the need to start digs at posters



Sorry but heard enough West Ham fans on phone ins etc and even I reckon it will be interesting to see what your expectations were at the start of last season - did you really think promises matched reality ? They have spent money lots of it



But this is all football choices as opposed for owners and financial behind the scenes.

It’s all about realistic expectations- there are I believe three levels in the Prem - the top 6 with Everton prob just on the outside - then the middle ground Prem teams which is where I see West Ham and then the teams they will be relegated and battling each season.

Because as always Phil you come out with you know it all attuide when really you know very little. Quickly shown when you try and prove your point

Phone ins don't give a reflection of anything

They are cherry picked to cause the most interest / controversy.