Plugged ball

[davemc1]

At our place there is a ditch that runs the full width of the fairway. Normally it's full of water, so the hazard is an obvious one.
Played today and landed in it, the ditch was empty though, so if desired you could play a shot from it.
The ball was plugged to the extent of only seeing the top third of it.

Think I remember a local rule, saying you had relief from the rough (not sure if that's just a winter rule)

would I have been able to roll the ball out of the plug and carry on?

oh, I had a look but there was no markers/posts anywhere to say the ditch was a hazard. Not sure if this has any relevance?

thanks, dave

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No you can't roll the ball out I believe unless a local rule is in place.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Without a local rule you can't move it. I'm fairly sure that if it was a marked hazard you wouldn't be able to move it even with a local rule as you can't do that in a hazard regardless

 

[London mike 61]

Perhaps best to treat it as an unplayable ball.

 

[rickg]

Even if there is a local rule, "rolling the ball out" is not the correct method.......it's drop as close to where the plugged ball was as possible.


The following is taken from Barry Rhodes excellent website. The bit about embedded balls in the rough is at the bottom.

Regular readers will be aware that I play my golf in Ireland, where at this time of year we are often faced with balls that are embedded. So, I thought that it would be timely to explain when relief without penalty may be taken for an embedded ball and how that relief must be taken. The relevant Rule is 25-2.

When is a ball considered to be embedded?
It must be in its own pitch-mark with part of the ball below the level of the ground. However, the ball does not necessarily have to touch the soil to be considered embedded, e.g., grass or loose impediments may intervene between the ball and the soil (Decision 25-2/0.5).
Where is relief without penalty available for a ball that is embedded?
When the ball is embedded in any closely mown area through the green.
What is a closely mown area?
Any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.
Interestingly, the above reference is the only time that the word 'fairway' is mentioned in the Rules of Golf.

What relief is available?
An embedded ball in a closely mown area may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.
What if the dropped ball embeds again on impact?
The player is entitled to drop the ball again, Decision 25-2/2.
What if the re-dropped ball embeds?
The player may, in equity (Rule 1-4), place the ball as near as possible to the spot where it embedded when re-dropped, but not nearer the hole, Decision 25-2/2.5.
Are grass banks or faces of bunkers considered to be closely mown areas?
Only if they are cut to fairway height or less, Decision 25-2/5.
If a player strikes their ball straight into a fairway bank, i.e., the ball is never airborne, is the player entitled to relief for an embedded ball?
No, relief is only available if a ball is embedded in its own pitch-mark, which implies that the ball has to be airborne after the stroke.


Is there ever free relief for a ball that is embedded in the rough?
Only if the Committee has made a Local Rule permitting relief for an embedded ball through the green, due to abnormal course conditions that warrant such relief. The relief has to specifically permit relief for an embedded ball through the green, for example, it is not sufficient for a notice to say ‘”Winter Rules in operation”.

 

[davemc1]

Cheers fellas :thup:

Surprised me regarding taking a free drop (when applicable) I've been told on numerous occasions that the roll out was the way to go.

 

[palindromicbob]

Yeah free drop in right situations but as Homer has alluded too there is no relief in a hazard regardless of local rule or not. The only problem with Homers statement is the marked hazard part. A water hazard is a water hazard regardless of being marked or not. Marking out a hazard by a committee helps to define the margins and is also useful to define a lateral hazard.

A "water hazard" is any sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open water course (whether or not containing water) and anything of a similar nature on the course. All ground and water within the margin of a water hazard are part of the water hazard.

When the margin of a water hazard is defined by stakes, the stakes are inside the water hazard, and the margin of the hazard is defined by the nearest outside points of the stakes at ground level. When both stakes and lines are used to indicate a water hazard, the stakes identify the hazard and the lines define the hazard margin. When the margin of a water hazard is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is in the water hazard. The margin of a water hazard extends vertically upwards and downwards.

 

[rickg]

I've been told on numerous occasions that the roll out was the way to go.

Another urban myth I'm afraid.....

 

[williamalex1]

Another urban myth I'm afraid.....

The instructions given to competitors at Drumpellier seniors open only a few weeks ago because of heavy rain. Roll ball out of its own pitch mark but not allowed to clean, through the green .

 

[palindromicbob]

The instructions given to competitors at Drumpellier seniors open only a few weeks ago because of heavy rain. Roll ball out of its own pitch mark but not allowed to clean, through the green .

Doesn't make it correct.

 

[Val]

The instructions given to competitors at Drumpellier seniors open only a few weeks ago because of heavy rain. Roll ball out of its own pitch mark but not allowed to clean, through the green .

Shocking, head pro here is it at least was a European Tour referee

 

[williamalex1]

Shocking, head pro here is it at least was a European Tour referee

The Pro , had nothing to do with the competition , not even the 2s comp.

 

[Foxholer]

Yeah free drop in right situations but as Homer has alluded too there is no relief in a hazard regardless of local rule or not. The only problem with Homers statement is the marked hazard part. A water hazard is a water hazard regardless of being marked or not. Marking out a hazard by a committee helps to define the margins and is also useful to define a lateral hazard.

Spot on!

The instructions given to competitors at Drumpellier seniors open only a few weeks ago because of heavy rain. Roll ball out of its own pitch mark but not allowed to clean, through the green .

Disagree with th instruction - should be lift, clean and drop, like 'approved' Winter Rule imo.

But if that's the instruction (LR).....

 

[rickg]

Spot on!



Disagree with th instruction - should be lift, clean and drop, like 'approved' Winter Rule imo.


But if that's the instruction (LR).....

An illegal local rule isn't allowed to override a rule of golf.......

 

[Foxholer]

An illegal local rule isn't allowed to override a rule of golf.......

Er...Try again!

A Local Rule is 'illegal' because it overrides a Rule of Golf! Iillegal is the wrong word btw - invalid/unapprovable is better.

But irrespective of whether it is 'illegal' or not, the fact that it is a Local Rule means that you must comply with it!

 

[chrisd]

Er...Try again!

A Local Rule is 'illegal' because it overrides a Rule of Golf! Iillegal is the wrong word btw - invalid/unapprovable is better.

But irrespective of whether it is 'illegal' or not, the fact that it is a Local Rule means that you must comply with it!

So, you are saying that if a local rule completely breaks a rule of golf you are obliged to follow it? Stupid I know, but, if a local rule says you can carry ( and use) 18 clubs then, unless the local rule is rescinded, it is fine to do so?

 

[Foxholer]

So, you are saying that if a local rule completely breaks a rule of golf you are obliged to follow it? Stupid I know, but, if a local rule says you can carry ( and use) 18 clubs then, unless the local rule is rescinded, it is fine to do so?

Yes!

To do otherwise would a DQ breach under 1-3 Agreement to Waive Rule!

The definition of Rules includes:

a. The Rules of Golf and their interpretations as contained in “Decisions on the Rules of Golf”;

b. Any Conditions of Competition established by the Committee under Rule 33-1 and Appendix I;

c. Any Local Rules established by the Committee under Rule 33-8a and Appendix I; and.........

There is nothing in there that states b) or c) must be legitimate/approved and there are plenty of clubs that have very dodgy ones! I'd be prepared to wager that there are quite a few that still haven't removed the 'relief from seeded divots' one that was withdrawn a while ago. An old club of mine has a classic one that wouldn't be approved - effectively, if poor memory means not literally - 'Putter is the only club that may be used on any green'. There is a hump on 1 green and in some situations a chip/lob could be contemplated, with subsequent damage to the surface if done badly.

In 'proper' Tournaments, virtually the first thing that happens is the Local Rules of the Club are examined to see which ones should be included in the Tournament's 'pack' and which ones should be dropped (or reworded). The example above would simply be dropped. I'm almost certain that the LR in the OP would also be dropped for bigger tournaments, in spite of its legitimacy, too. The Pace of Play issue would be covered by other means - like spotters.

And to apply your logic to a common real situation....

Conditions of Comp state a maximum of 4 clubs may be used - the 3 Clubs and a Putter comp. How would your Committee handle a case where folk said - 'That's breaching a Rule of Golf so I'm going to use 14 anyway'!

 

[Val]

The Pro , had nothing to do with the competition , not even the 2s comp.

The club should be speaking to him though regarding local rulings though, my criticism is not of the pro it's of the comp committee

 

[rickg]

Er...Try again!

A Local Rule is 'illegal' because it overrides a Rule of Golf! Iillegal is the wrong word btw - invalid/unapprovable is better.

But irrespective of whether it is 'illegal' or not, the fact that it is a Local Rule means that you must comply with it!

I'll give you a specific example of why a local rule can't override a rule of golf.

2 years ago at Aldwickbury Park there was a qualifier in the winter.....it was just after the snow had pretty much cleared, but there was still some left in some of the bunkers.

The club made a LOCAL RULE and posted it that "ALL bunkers are GUR" everyone went out and played the comp.

When it was pointed out that this wasn't a rule of golf and they couldn't make ALL bunkers GUR, only specific ones, they contacted the R&A who confirmed this and the club therefore had to make the comp non qualifying.
The reason they gave was that a local rule cannot override a rule of golf.

That's why I used the term illegal......use invalid if you prefer, but if think people got the gist.

I'm also talking about qualifying comps...not bothered about 3 clubs and a putter, cross country, using a piece of string ,etc etc etc.....clubs can do what they want there as far as I am concerned.

 

[nemicu]

Local rules cannot override the rules of golf. This was a similar situation when a club deemed the pin could be left in when putting to avoid damaging the green. You can't do this, because it contravenes the rules of golf. Likewise, you can't allow free relief from a hazard - the actual water hazard remains so whether it has any water in it or not. It is a matter of fact whether a ball lies in a hazard or not - the ditch is either marked as a hazard or it isn't. Clubs can allow play from a "drop zone" if there is some specific issue with the hazard, but obviously this would be under normal penalty - and the rules of golf.