Playing 18 hole shotgun start on a 9 hole course

[LizAig]

In a recent Texas scramble my team started on the 3rd hole - after we played the 9th we played the 10th then once we’d played the 18th we played the 1st and 2nd however all the other teams we watched who started on the front 9 played the 1st, not the 10th. Afterwards long-standing members said they’ve always played/completed the front 9 and then the back 9. They said many, many years ago they asked England Golf who didn’t give much guidance but someone thinks it was suggested they play the front, then the back so that’s what they do. TBH it was a fun comp so I knew we wouldn’t get DQd plus as nothing was mentioned before we went out and i knew there was nothing to cover this in the T of C then I knew I could argued my case.

Does anyone have any knowledge round this or know a ruling that would cover it - google does not have the answer!!

 

[Neilds]

Might just be me, but I don't fully understand what you are saying. I understand you have 2 sets of tees on each hole. Are you saying, for example, players who started on the 3rd played the holes in this order:
3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,10,11 whereas you played 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,1,2

 

[stevieb15]

Might just be me, but I don't fully understand what you are saying. I understand you have 2 sets of tees on each hole. Are you saying, for example, players who started on the 3rd played the holes in this order:
3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,10,11 whereas you played 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,1,2

That’s what I thought was the meaning although not totally certain, however, if it was an 18 hole course and you started at 3, logically you would play in order and finish on the 2nd as Lizaig did unless the rules of the competition say otherwise.

 

[LizAig]

Might just be me, but I don't fully understand what you are saying. I understand you have 2 sets of tees on each hole. Are you saying, for example, players who started on the 3rd played the holes in this order:
3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,10,11 whereas you played 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,1,2

Yes - exactly that

 

[LizAig]

That’s what I thought was the meaning although not totally certain, however, if it was an 18 hole course and you started at 3, logically you would play in order and finish on the 2nd as Lizaig did unless the rules of the competition say otherwise.

That was me thinking logically too - you carry on after 9 and complete the course then go back to1 but all the long standing members were saying nope - you play the full front 9 holes first and then the back 9! To be fair when I queried it everyone saw the logic but just said someone years ago had asked England Golf and that’s why they do it this way!! We don’t often do an 18 hole Texas but after we started discussing I was told the men’s winter league does the same thing - front 9 then back 9

 

[rulefan]

That was me thinking logically too - you carry on after 9 and complete the course then go back to1 but all the long standing members were saying nope - you play the full front 9 holes first and then the back 9! To be fair when I queried it everyone saw the logic but just said someone years ago had asked England Golf and that’s why they do it this way!! We don’t often do an 18 hole Texas but after we started discussing I was told the men’s winter league does the same thing - front 9 then back 9

Was there a particular reason for your starting on the 3rd? It seems odd not to start on the 1st (or possibly 10th) unless it was a 'shotgun'.

 

[Swango1980]

Was there a particular reason for your starting on the 3rd? It seems odd not to start on the 1st (or possibly 10th) unless it was a 'shotgun'.

The clue is in the title, unless that was updated after your post?

 

[rulefan]

The clue is in the title, unless that was updated after your post?

Must have missed it

 

[Alan Clifford]

That was me thinking logically too - you carry on after 9 and complete the course then go back to1 but all the long standing members were saying nope - you play the full front 9 holes first and then the back 9! To be fair when I queried it everyone saw the logic but just said someone years ago had asked England Golf and that’s why they do it this way!! We don’t often do an 18 hole Texas but after we started discussing I was told the men’s winter league does the same thing - front 9 then back 9

No, no, no. A 9 hole course with different tees for 1-9 and 10-18 is essentially an 18 hole course. Of course you should play 3-9, 10-18, 1-2. There is no sane logic that you could provide justifying 3-9, 1-2, 12-18, 10-11.

 

[IJames]

No, no, no. A 9 hole course with different tees for 1-9 and 10-18 is essentially an 18 hole course. Of course you should play 3-9, 10-18, 1-2. There is no sane logic that you could provide justifying 3-9, 1-2, 12-18, 10-11.

So you are saying the, apparent, England Golf advice in Post 5 was wrong?

 

[LizAig]

So you are saying the, apparent, England Golf advice in Post 5 was wrong?no one can say who

No - I didn’t say the England Golf advice was wrong - I asked if anyone had any knowledge about it or knew of a rule that would apply.

 

[Swango1980]

No - I didn’t say the England Golf advice was wrong - I asked if anyone had any knowledge about it or knew of a rule that would apply.

Pretty sure IJames was responding to Alan Clifford?

 

[Old Colner]

No, no, no. A 9 hole course with different tees for 1-9 and 10-18 is essentially an 18 hole course. Of course you should play 3-9, 10-18, 1-2. There is no sane logic that you could provide justifying 3-9, 1-2, 12-18, 10-11.

May I offer some sane logic, I don't have an answer for which is the correct procedure but would like to offer some reasoning for the alternative view, it being that the final nine holes you actually play make up the back nine on the card.

 

[AJNairn]

I don't think it really matters, but it should probably have been stated somewhere, just for newbie consistency.

 

[Neilds]

That was me thinking logically too - you carry on after 9 and complete the course then go back to1 but all the long standing members were saying nope - you play the full front 9 holes first and then the back 9! To be fair when I queried it everyone saw the logic but just said someone years ago had asked England Golf and that’s why they do it this way!! We don’t often do an 18 hole Texas but after we started discussing I was told the men’s winter league does the same thing - front 9 then back 9

You need to be careful with the 'Someone asked years ago' response. People have a habit of mis-remembering things and it may not have even been the right question that was asked. Try and get someone to find the response and see if that helps.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

In a recent Texas scramble my team started on the 3rd hole - after we played the 9th we played the 10th then once we’d played the 18th we played the 1st and 2nd however all the other teams we watched who started on the front 9 played the 1st, not the 10th. Afterwards long-standing members said they’ve always played/completed the front 9 and then the back 9. They said many, many years ago they asked England Golf who didn’t give much guidance but someone thinks it was suggested they play the front, then the back so that’s what they do. TBH it was a fun comp so I knew we wouldn’t get DQd plus as nothing was mentioned before we went out and i knew there was nothing to cover this in the T of C then I knew I could argued my case.

Does anyone have any knowledge round this or know a ruling that would cover it - google does not have the answer!!

The club were correct, you finish the front nine, then start the back 9 on the 12th.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

No, no, no. A 9 hole course with different tees for 1-9 and 10-18 is essentially an 18 hole course. Of course you should play 3-9, 10-18, 1-2. There is no sane logic that you could provide justifying 3-9, 1-2, 12-18, 10-11.

No, no, no. You are incorrect, that's not how you work for nine holers, two sets of tees or one, you finish the nine then start the back 9.

 

[Neilds]

No, no, no. You are incorrect, that's not how you work for nine holers, two sets of tees or one, you finish the nine then start the back 9.

Do you have any proof or evidence this is correct? Not questioning your answer but would like to see a reference

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Do you have any proof or evidence this is correct? Not questioning your answer but would like to see a reference

We have plenty nine holers here, they all do the same thing, it's how it's always been. There's no reference to quote other than standard practice.
I think it's quite amusing that folks not used to 9 holers are calling into question how this works? If every course does it this way, they must all be wrong?

 

[Swango1980]

We have plenty nine holers here, they all do the same thing, it's how it's always been. There's no reference to quote other than standard practice.
I think it's quite amusing that folks not used to 9 holers are calling into question how this works? If every course does it this way, they must all be wrong?

Trying to follow their logic though, probably why it would be interesting to know if it is documented.

Although a 9-hole course, the competition is an 18-hole round. Normally, presumably a stipulated round is 1-18, if starting on the first. So, if a shotgun start is being played, why does it not simply go in numerical order (i.e. the stipulated round).

I suppose one key reason would be that, as there are physically only 9 holes, then technically everyone is starting on the front 9. Given that is a very different feature to an 18-hole course, then it opens up the opportunity to say you can complete the full front 9, and then follow this with the full back 9.

Is it documented, or does it even need to be documented generally? Perhaps it is simply just a condition of the competition, and the 9 hole clubs have all commonly adopted it as it works best?