Played with a rules 'expert'

I played in our drawn pairs betterball competition a couple of weeks ago and walking down the 12th in the semi rough to assist a FC find his ball I saw him about to run over it with his trolley, I tried to warn him but he reacted to late and the front wheel of his trolley hit the ball and moved it about 3”.

“That was lucky” he commented, when I enquired as to how it was lucky, he advised me it would have been penalty had the ball been on the fairway.
 
Whereditgo said:
I played in our drawn pairs betterball competition a couple of weeks ago and walking down the 12th in the semi rough to assist a FC find his ball I saw him about to run over it with his trolley, I tried to warn him but he reacted to late and the front wheel of his trolley hit the ball and moved it about 3”.

“That was lucky” he commented, when I enquired as to how it was lucky, he advised me it would have been penalty had the ball been on the fairway.
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Always a bugger when you stand on your ball when searching for it in the rough. Of course though this seems unfair - it has to incur a penalty shot because only the player knows whether he deliberately stood on it. One of these circumstances where your penalty for 'carelessness' or 'bad luck' is there to protect us from the antics of the cheats.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Always a bugger when you stand on your ball when searching for it in the rough. Of course though this seems unfair - it has to incur a penalty shot because only the player knows whether he deliberately stood on it. One of these circumstances where your penalty for 'carelessness' or 'bad luck' is there to protect us from the antics of the cheats.
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Our competition secretary accidentally trod on his ball while searching for it in deep rough earlier this year. He found his ball but incurred a one shot penalty. Seemed a bit unfair in that circumstance! :mmm:
 
delc said:
Our competition secretary accidentally trod on his ball while searching for it in deep rough earlier this year. He found his ball but incurred a one shot penalty. Seemed a bit unfair in that circumstance! :mmm:
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Unfair but not much difference between standing on it and it going nowhere and standing on it and it moving to a place more advantageous. In general only the player who stands on his ball knows whether accidental or intentional and if ball has moved - though often the player won't know and so you have to assume that the ball has moved.
 
delc said:
Our competition secretary accidentally trod on his ball while searching for it in deep rough earlier this year. He found his ball but incurred a one shot penalty. Seemed a bit unfair in that circumstance! :mmm:
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Sorry, but what is there in that circumstance as opposed to any other instance of accidentally moving your ball that makes a penalty unfair?
 
Colin L said:
Sorry, but what is there in that circumstance as opposed to any other instance of accidentally moving your ball that makes a penalty unfair?
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a) The ball wasn't visible as it was hidden under long grass.
b) He only, if anything, pushed the ball further down into the rough when he trod on it, so no advantage gained.

And before you pull me up on Rule 18-2a, we did replace the ball as near as possible to what we estimated to be its original lie and position before he played his next shot.
 
WOW imagine if someone new to the game was to read this thread... Thanks but I'll stick to football would probably be there answer :eek:
 
Unfortunate? Yes. If a FC or Opponent had found it that way, then no penalty

Unfair? No. There's no such thing as 'fair or unfair' in RofG. Equitable? Yes!
 
delc said:
a) The ball wasn't visible as it was hidden under long grass.
b) He only, if anything, pushed the ball further down into the rough when he trod on it, so no advantage gained.

And before you pull me up on Rule 18-2a, we did replace the ball as near as possible to what we estimated to be its original lie and position before he played his next shot.
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Maybe it wasn't so unfair

If he only found the ball because he stood on it then maybe it saved him a long walk back under penalty
 
delc said:
And before you pull me up on Rule 18-2a, we did replace the ball as near as possible to what we estimated to be its original lie and position before he played his next shot.
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so you proceeded incorrectly as well!

excellent, and of course this really is unfair as he obviously could have avoided that additional penalty by proceeding correctly...
 
duncan mackie said:
so you proceeded incorrectly as well!

excellent, and of course this really is unfair as he obviously could have avoided that additional penalty by proceeding correctly...
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As far as I can remember, Rule 18-2a states that if a ball at rest is moved by the player (whose ball it is), his playing partner, or his caddie, it needs to be replaced under penalty of one stroke, which is what we did! If we hadn't he would have incurred a 2-shot penalty! The ball was not in a hazard or an abnormal ground condition btw.
 
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delc said:
As far as I can remember, Rule 18-2a states that if a ball at rest is moved by the player (whose ball it is), his playing partner, or his caddie, it needs to be replaced under penalty of one stroke, which is what we did! If we hadn't he would have incurred a 2-shot penalty! The ball was not in a hazard or an abnormal ground condition btw.
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Read Rule 20-3b & c
 
delc said:
As far as I can remember, Rule 18-2a states that if a ball at rest is moved by the player (whose ball it is), his playing partner, or his caddie, it needs to be replaced under penalty of one stroke, which is what we did! If we hadn't he would have incurred a 2-shot penalty! The ball was not in a hazard or an abnormal ground condition btw.
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Decision 18-2a/21.5 covers this exact circumstance! 2 shot total penalty! So, as Duncan posted, you proceeded incorrectly!

Btw. A slightly pedantic note on wording.... There is a Penalty of 1 shot and the ball must be replaced. Not as you wrote.
 
There seems to be some total pedantry going on here! The player had a pretty good idea of how far he had accidentally pushed the ball down with his foot, so with our agreement as fellow competitors in his group, he replaced his ball. The only other option in Rule 20 was to drop the ball as near as possible to the original spot NNTH, which might have worked out more favourably for him if it had stayed on top of the long grass, but this didn't seem appropriate or necessary!
 
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delc said:
There seems to be some total pedantry going on here! The player had a pretty good idea of how far he had accidentally pushed the ball down with his foot, so with our agreement as fellow competitors in his group, he replaced his ball. The only other option in Rule 20 was to drop the ball as near as possible to the original spot NNTH, which might have worked out more favourably for him if it had stayed on top of the long grass, but this didn't seem appropriate or necessary!
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You've just said it yourself. He had a 'pretty good idea'..... That's not being pedantic, it's following the rules as they're written.
 
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