Penalty for Lee-Anne Pace

[cliveb]

Just been watching some of the LET event in Germany and a penalty has got me wondering...

Lee-Anne Pace's playing partner (Engstrom) had played a provisional onto the fairway, and then found her first ball in the rough.
Then, Pace's caddy picked up a ball which he thought was Engstrom's provisional, but turned out to be Pace's own ball.
So an obvious one-shot penalty for moving the ball in play, which is what the referee ruled.

BUT... they were playing preferred lies. (No idea why - the course looked in fine condition to me - but they were).
Could it be the case that provided the caddy placed the ball back within the preferred lie area, there would be no penalty?
And if so, shouldn't the referee have advised her of this?

 

[rulefan]

Where was the picked up ball, in the rough or on the fairway?

 

[cliveb]

Where was the picked up ball, in the rough or on the fairway?

It was on the fairway.

 

[rulefan]

Then 9.4b would apply but the player/caddy was not proceeding under the conditions underlined below (ie Preferred Lies). They cannot proceed retrospectively.

b. Penalty for Lifting or Deliberately Touching Ball or Causing It to Move
If the player lifts or deliberately touches his or her ball at rest or causes it to move, the player gets one penalty stroke.

But there are four exceptions:

Exception 1 – Player Allowed to Lift or Move Ball: There is no penalty when the player lifts the ball or causes it to move under a Rule that:

• Allows the ball to be lifted and then replaced on its original spot,
• Requires a moved ball to be replaced on its original spot, or
• Requires or allows the player to drop or place a ball again or to play a ball from a different place.

Edited re #5 & #6

 

[cliveb]

Then 9.4b would apply but the player/caddy was not proceeding under the conditions underlined below (ie Preferred Lies). They cannot proceed retrospectively.

When you say they cannot proceed retrospectively, are you saying that because at the time they lifted the ball they weren't intending to prefer the lie, they can't then choose to do so?

Exception 1 – Player Allowed to Lift or Move Ball: There is no penalty when the player lifts the ball or causes it to move under a Rule that:

• Allows the ball to be lifted and then replaced on its original spot,
• Requires a moved ball to be replaced on its original spot, or
• Requires or allows the player to drop or place a ball again or to play a ball from a different place.

Just a point of clarification: when preferred lies are in use, isn't the third exception ("Requires or allows the player to drop or place a ball again or to play a ball from a different place") the relevant one?

 

[rulefan]

When you say they cannot proceed retrospectively, are you saying that because at the time they lifted the ball they weren't intending to prefer the lie, they can't then choose to do so?

Yes

Just a point of clarification: when preferred lies are in use, isn't the third exception ("Requires or allows the player to drop or place a ball again or to play a ball from a different place") the relevant one?

You are correct of course. I've had too much sunshine and wine whilst away.

 

[Steven Rules]

Even under preferred lies conditions, if it was the player’s caddie who lifted the ball, the discussion so far seems to be overlooking a key aspect of 14.1b:

If the caddie lifts the ball without authorization when it is anywhere except on the putting green, the player gets one penalty stroke (see Rule 9.4).

I assume no authorisation was given as the caddie had obviously thought it was not his player’s ball so nobody felt any need to seek or give such authorisation.

 

[Dutch Boy]

I see that the referee advised LeeAnne Pace to drop the ball. Was this correct? R9.4a states replace!

 

[Steven Rules]

I see that the referee advised LeeAnne Pace to drop the ball. Was this correct? R9.4a states replace!

You are correct. Replace the ball on its original spot (which if not known must be estimated).

Edit. However, as they are playing preferred lies, Interpretation 14.2/1 gives the player the OPTION to replace the ball on its original spot first and then take the preferred lie OR bypass the replacement process and just go straight to the preferred lie.

 

[salfordlad]

Where was the picked up ball, in the rough or on the fairway?

In sum ....
The location is not relevant to the penalty for moving the ball. The caddie has no permission to lift the player's ball (other than on the putting green) unless specifically authorized by the player, as Steven notes (10.3b(2) and 14.1b), so the player is penalized one stroke under 9.4b. On what to do next, the referee got it wrong, dropping the ball is not part of the equation. The player's options were: (a) the original ball to be replaced on the original spot by the player or the caddie (14.2b(1)); or (b) any ball to be placed in the correct relief area by the player under the preferred lies local rule.