Peculiar one

[JGolfer]

Was playing in a medal, but my tee shot, right hand side of the fairway/semi rough, so far so good. I walk up and see a ball, it’s a TaylorMade but not mine, I ask the group from the hole close (not part of the medal) what he is playing? He says TaylorMade project a, I mention he has just hit my ball (tp5), he doesn’t return the ball and continues on (he had already hit his second) I am now in a situation where I can’t actually play my ball, because someone not in the medal played it. Both balls where in the semi rough. I was given a 2 stroke penalty.

He did return it two holes later but the damage was done.


What would the rule here be? Just curious as I’m not really up to scratch on rules of golf, felt like I was being punished because of someone else’s mistake, that I had no control over.

 

[LincolnShep]

You must be certain or virtually certain that the other player has picked up your ball. If you are then it's covered by 9.6, you place the ball (or a new ball) on the original spot, (you can estimate the spot if if you don't know) and carry on - there is no penalty.

 

[JGolfer]

You must be certain or virtually certain that the other player has picked up your ball. If you are then it's covered by 9.6, you place the ball (or a new ball) on the original spot, (you can estimate the spot if if you don't know) and carry on - there is no penalty.

I wasn’t sure until I shouted over and asked and it was 100% my ball as it had my J on it. I wish I had known, one of the members I was playing with told me my ball is deemed lost and sent me back to the tee. Now I know for future! Thanks

 

[backwoodsman]

As per LincolnShep, if it was known or virtually certain that the other player had hit your ball and it was not immediately recoverable, then you could play another ball from where it had been lying - without penalty. Rule 9,.6. But how sure were you at the time? Ok, a couple of holes later it was proven, but how sure were you when you were looking. If you only thought it was a possibility, than that's quite a step away from "virtually certain". If you were not really sure then you'd have to treat the ball as lost and go back to the tee and play 3 off the tee. In the end though - what did you actually do and for what reason did someone give you thd "2 shot penalty"?

Edit. Just seen your further post. So when you shouted & asked what reply did you get? (Did he shout back with "yes, I've just played a wrong ball . Definitely yours because it had your J on it" ?)

 

[LincolnShep]

I wasn’t sure until I shouted over and asked and it was 100% my ball as it had my J on it. I wish I had known, one of the members I was playing with told me my ball is deemed lost and sent me back to the tee. Now I know for future! Thanks

I bet there isn't a golfer among us who hasn't followed some dodgy advice from someone who is 'certain' that they 'know' what the rule is! You know this one now but I would really recommend carrying the little rule book, or getting the rules app on your phone, or (my preference) getting this book, it's expensive but very quick to find the relevant rule.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just one thing that occurred to me on reading this. If the player ahead said - yes - oops - I can confirm that I must have played the wrong ball on the hole you are playing and am indeed about to play a second shot with what we now know to be your ball - if you had said 'can I have it then'. He gives you your ball - what does he do? Does he simply put another ball down with no penalty. I guess that he must be allowed to do that.

 

[Neilds]

I bet there isn't a golfer among us who hasn't followed some dodgy advice from someone who is 'certain' that they 'know' what the rule is! You know this one now but I would really recommend carrying the little rule book, or getting the rules app on your phone, or (my preference) getting this book, it's expensive but very quick to find the relevant rule.

2nd recommendation for the quick reference booklet in the link. Much easier to get to the relevant rule when required

 

[LincolnShep]

Just one thing that occurred to me on reading this. If the player ahead said - yes - oops - I can confirm that I must have played the wrong ball on the hole you are playing and am indeed about to play a second shot with what we now know to be your ball - if you had said 'can I have it then'. He gives you your ball - what does he do? Does he simply put another ball down with no penalty. I guess that he must be allowed to do that.

The player must go back to where the mistake occurred and replay from there. The strokes taken with the wrong ball don't count. There's a two shot penalty (in strokeplay) as long as it's corrected before you start the next hole, otherwise it's a DQ. This is covered in 6.3c.

 

[Swango1980]

I was playing in a medal once, drove off the 9th and ended up to the right, on the long par 5 6th fairway (off which a group also playing the medal was on). When I got down there, I found a ball but it wasn't mine. It had the initials of a guy that was playing the 6th (they had just passed that point, and were now further up the hole). I realised he must have played mine, so I ran up their fairway (about 150 yards) to him to ask if I had found his ball. He had said yes. Annoyingly, he had just hit the ball he was now playing with (presumably mine), so I had to run another 200 or so yards up the fairway to see if it was mine. It was.

So, I got him to come back and show me where my ball was. So, ultimately I was OK. However, I didn't notice him come back and play his ball from correct position, and after comp I saw he scored a 7 on that hole (a 580 yard par 5 up hill into the wind, and he is not a big hitter). I was much newer to golf back then, so didn't really try and ensure he followed the correct procedure himself, I just assumed he and his group would do the right thing. In reality, had he come back and played the correct ball, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have scored well over 10.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The player must go back to where the mistake occurred and replay from there. The strokes taken with the wrong ball don't count. There's a two shot penalty (in strokeplay) as long as it's corrected before you start the next hole, otherwise it's a DQ. This is covered in 6.3c.

So if that player has completed the hole on which the mistake was made and is playing a subsequent hole - indeed he might be a few holes ahead. He is DQ'd no matter what. I can imagine the conversation. Did you not long ago play a ball from about here? Yes? Is the ball you are playing make blah, number blah - and does it have a J written on it? Because if it does then you played my ball back here and so you are disqualified. Sorry mate...

 

[Colin L]

So if that player has completed the hole on which the mistake was made and is playing a subsequent hole - indeed he might be a few holes ahead. He is DQ'd no matter what. I can imagine the conversation. Did you not long ago play a ball from about here? Yes? Is the ball you are playing make blah, number blah - and does it have a J written on it? Because if it does then you played my ball back here and so you are disqualified. Sorry mate...

It's not down to any player to tell another one that he is disqualified. Just leave it as "May I have my ball back, please.?"

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's not down to any player to tell another one that he is disqualified. Just leave it as "May I have my ball back, please.?"

Indeed. I am doubting that they player giving up the found ball will realise he's DQ'd. He'd have been DQ'd anyway having played out a hole with the wrong and having tee'd off on the next.

 

[JGolfer]

As per LincolnShep, if it was known or virtually certain that the other player had hit your ball and it was not immediately recoverable, then you could play another ball from where it had been lying - without penalty. Rule 9,.6. But how sure were you at the time? Ok, a couple of holes later it was proven, but how sure were you when you were looking. If you only thought it was a possibility, than that's quite a step away from "virtually certain". If you were not really sure then you'd have to treat the ball as lost and go back to the tee and play 3 off the tee. In the end though - what did you actually do and for what reason did someone give you thd "2 shot penalty"?

Edit. Just seen your further post. So when you shouted & asked what reply did you get? (Did he shout back with "yes, I've just played a wrong ball . Definitely yours because it had your J on it" ?)

I asked what ball he was playing he told me a TaylorMade project (a) I said I think you’ve hit my ball TP5 with a J on the side, and he waved, apologised when we met at the half way house. So before that exchange, I wasn’t sure, I only became sure at the point of the conservation. Now admittedly I don’t know if more than 3 minutes had passed or not

 

[rulie]

As a reminder, "virtually certain" means that your decision would be correct 19 times out of 20.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm virtually certain that there are some people, whose decision would be right 16 times out of 20, would perceive this to be 19 times out of 20 and therefore claim to be virtually certain.

 

[rulie]

I'm virtually certain that there are some people, whose decision would be right 16 times out of 20, would perceive this to be 19 times out of 20 and therefore claim to be virtually certain.

But that would not meet the standard of virtually certain, and they would be in breach of the Rules, subject to the appropriate penalty. "Virtually certain" is a very high standard and for good reason (gaining advantage without a stroke).

 

[rulefan]

It has nothing to do with a person being right or wrong. It is evidence based, as in a court of law.

• There is conclusive evidence that the event in question happened to your ball, such as when you or other witnesses saw it happen, or
• Although there is a very small degree of doubt, all reasonably available information shows that it is at least 95% likely that the event in question happened.

 

[Swango1980]

But that would not meet the standard of virtually certain, and they would be in breach of the Rules, subject to the appropriate penalty. "Virtually certain" is a very high standard and for good reason (gaining advantage without a stroke).

Which was my point.

 

[Swango1980]

It has nothing to do with a person being right or wrong. It is evidence based, as in a court of law.

• There is conclusive evidence that the event in question happened to your ball, such as when you or other witnesses saw it happen, or
• Although there is a very small degree of doubt, all reasonably available information shows that it is at least 95% likely that the event in question happened.

I doubt most groups have a qualified barrister with them to ensure strict obedience.

"My ball must have gone in water, I'll take a drop"
"Are you sure, we have been looking in this rough around the water for a couple of minutes, could be in here"
"Na, we'd probably have found it my now, must be in water"
"Are you 95% sure?"
"Yeah, I'm fairly sure, so 95% seems right to me. Maybe 96% sure"
"Yeah, fair enough"

 

[rulie]

I doubt most groups have a qualified barrister with them to ensure strict obedience.

"My ball must have gone in water, I'll take a drop"
"Are you sure, we have been looking in this rough around the water for a couple of minutes, could be in here"
"Na, we'd probably have found it my now, must be in water"
"Are you 95% sure?"
"Yeah, I'm fairly sure, so 95% seems right to me. Maybe 96% sure"
"Yeah, fair enough"

And the referee could easily say, "Could the ball be anywhere else?", followed by, "Find me the ball."