Order of play on the green

[mchacker]

So I got a side chat in the clubhouse a few weeks ago from one of the local rules 'experts' that I had broken a rule earlier in the day. Why he waited until after is beyond me.

Basically I putted from the front of the green to a couple of feet and as I hate stewing over short putts I quickly marked it to wipe off the grit that had collected, replaced the ball and knocked it in. In the bar afterwards he told me that I should have been penalised for playing out of turn because I had marked the ball.

I can't find a thing in the rules but if this is a rule I'd like to know for sure as I'm quite impatient around the hole and could fall foul of it. FWIW this guy is a referee for some of our matchplay events so I would like to think he'd be right but I'm pretty sure I saw Jordan Spieth do something very similar at the weekend and nobody seemed to flinch at that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So I got a side chat in the clubhouse a few weeks ago from one of the local rules 'experts' that I had broken a rule earlier in the day. Why he waited until after is beyond me.

Basically I putted from the front of the green to a couple of feet and as I hate stewing over short putts I quickly marked it to wipe off the grit that had collected, replaced the ball and knocked it in. In the bar afterwards he told me that I should have been penalised for playing out of turn because I had marked the ball.

I can't find a thing in the rules but if this is a rule I'd like to know for sure as I'm quite impatient around the hole and could fall foul of it. FWIW this guy is a referee for some of our matchplay events so I would like to think he'd be right but I'm pretty sure I saw Jordan Spieth do something very similar at the weekend and nobody seemed to flinch at that.

In match play i believe he could ask you play it again

But in stroke play there will be no penalty. Next time ask him to show you the rule that he is intending to penalise you under

 

[upsidedown]

Another myth, you're entitled to finish out .

 

[Blue in Munich]

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=10&subRuleNum=2

It would appear that he's right if you mark, lift and clean, but if you putt out without marking the ball that is fine as I read it. Unfortunately he would appear to be wrong about the penalty as there is none in either stroke play or match play although in match play your opponent could recall the shot and ask you to play again.

Hope that helps and that I'm not corrected by one of our more knowledgeable members……..:mmm:

 

[Foxholer]

Another myth!

Ok, you played out of turn. But there is no penalty for doing so - though in Matchplay, the opponent(s) may require you to cancel and replay.

If you had simply left your ball - rather than marking it - then the player whose turn it was could request you mark it. At that point, you actually have the option of putting it instead - and you would have been able to mark, lift and clean before doing so!

In all such cases, you should ask the guy to prove what he says - thanking him if he actually does.

Not the best sort of person who should be a Referee imo - if this incident is typical! Golf Referees shouldn't be looking for opportunities to penalise players - and they should check their facts (no penalty)!

 

[ManinBlack]

Rule 10-2(c) No penalty.

 

[mchacker]

Thanks everyone, all of the above affirms how I had read the rule, at the time decided to just roll with it and research on my own rather than get involved in the bar. Should probably have explained it was strokeplay so no option to have it replayed. On the rare occasion I compete in matchplay I always mark these sort of putts out of courtesy as much as anything, in strokeplay I just like to get on with it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Another myth. Ask him to prove it in the rule book or buy you a pint and apologise. Enjoy the drink

 

[Spuddy]

Refer him to this decision next time it comes up

[h=2][FONT=Alegreya Sans, sans-serif]10-2b/1[/FONT][/h][h=2] [/h][h=4]Competitor Objects to Fellow-Competitor Putting Out of Turn[/h]Q.In stroke play, A's ball is 40 feet from the hole and B's is 30 feet away. A putts and his ball comes to rest four feet from the hole. A prepares to hole out before B putts. B objects and claims that under the Rules (Rule 10-2b) he is entitled to putt before A.

Although putting out of turn in stroke play is generally condoned, should the Committee allow A to putt out of turn in these circumstances?

A.If A had lifted his ball when the objection was lodged, the Committee should rule that A is not entitled to putt out of turn, in view of Rule 10-2b.

If A had not lifted his ball at the time the objection was lodged, the answer depends on whether B would require A to lift his ball under Rule 22 (Ball Assisting or Interfering with Play) before he (B) putts. If so, the Committee should rule that A is entitled to play out of turn, provided he does so without first lifting his ball, i.e., Rule 22-2 permits a competitor in stroke play who is required to lift his ball because of interference to "play first rather than lift."

If B would not require A to lift his ball before he (B) putts, the Committee should rule that A is not entitled to putt out of turn.

Although condoning putting out of turn in stroke play may be questionable in view of the explicit language of Rule 10-2b, there is no penalty for doing so (Rule 10-2c), it is not in conflict with the intent of Rule 10-2b, and it may tend to speed play. Accordingly, it is considered that the practice should not be discouraged.

[h=2][/h]

 

[rulefan]

FWIW this guy is a referee for some of our matchplay events

I doubt if he is a qualified Referee. He's just a guy who referees.

 

[Slab]

Since the OP has been answered can I ask about during play of the hole

10-2.b Stroke Play

b. During Play of Hole

After the competitors have started play of the hole, the ball farthest from the hole is played first. If two or more balls are equidistant from the hole or their positions relative to the hole are not determinable, the ball to be played first should be decided by lot

For your 2nd/3rd shot has anyone ever actually used a 'lot' to determine order of play. I never have. Its always a nod, wave of hand or some other gesture to let them know they can play or I intend to play

I note its 'should' and not 'must' so at least we're not in breach when we don't do it... or are we?

 

[rulefan]

No problem. See the last para of post #9.

 

[Region3]

If A had not lifted his ball at the time the objection was lodged, the answer depends on whether B would require A to lift his ball under Rule 22 (Ball Assisting or Interfering with Play) before he (B) putts. If so, the Committee should rule that A is entitled to play out of turn, provided he does so without first lifting his ball, i.e., Rule 22-2 permits a competitor in stroke play who is required to lift his ball because of interference to "play first rather than lift."

Does the bold text mean that you can't mark and clean your ball or make sure there's nothing nasty underneath it before holing out, or am I taking it too literally?

 

[duncan mackie]

Does the bold text mean that you can't mark and clean your ball or make sure there's nothing nasty underneath it before holing out, or am I taking it too literally?

I'm not sure how you are taking it!

The crux of this decision really relates to any possible penalty that might be imposed under 33-7 if a player was to persistently, and detrimentally to other players, play out of turn.

The rule (10-2) is there to deal with issues around what happens if in the case of balls hitting each other etc - as the decision makes clear;

1. if you are requested to mark you ball you are no longer playing out of turn if you elect to play it
2. if you do mark, clean and replace before holing out you are playing out of turn but there's no penalty
3. note, you can also replace your ball and hole out rather than moving your marker under the same principle as (1)

 

[Region3]

I'm not sure how you are taking it!

The crux of this decision really relates to any possible penalty that might be imposed under 33-7 if a player was to persistently, and detrimentally to other players, play out of turn.

The rule (10-2) is there to deal with issues around what happens if in the case of balls hitting each other etc - as the decision makes clear;

1. if you are requested to mark you ball you are no longer playing out of turn if you elect to play it
2. if you do mark, clean and replace before holing out you are playing out of turn but there's no penalty
3. note, you can also replace your ball and hole out rather than moving your marker under the same principle as (1)

Hypothetically (hopefully no-one would be this awkward)...

I putt first and leave my ball 18" from the hole and would like to hole out, but strictly under the rules am not allowed to.
My ball is not on my FC's line but to be on the safe side he would obviously like me to mark it in case he hits it.
I say that I will putt rather than mark as the rules say I'm allowed to do.

If I mark my ball to first check there isn't anything underneath that might cause it to jump off-line, has my entitlement to putt first been lost as soon as I pick my ball up?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you had simply left your ball - rather than marking it - then the player whose turn it was could request you mark it. At that point, you actually have the option of putting it instead - and you would have been able to mark, lift and clean before doing so!

This I did not know. So in matchplay I putt to 18" and would dearly like to hole out. I CAN do this so long as I don't mark and lift my ball - even although my Opponent is further from the hole. If I mark and lift I lose that option. And further if my opponent asks me to mark my ball - and i hadnt for whatever reason exercised my right to finish as above - maybe there was earth on my ball - I can then mark lift and clean my ball and THEN I can replace and exercise my right to finish off.

Blimey - that is a significant change in my thinking

 

[bladeplayer]

This I did not know. So in matchplay I putt to 18" and would dearly like to hole out. I CAN do this so long as I don't mark and lift my ball - even although my Opponent is further from the hole. If I mark and lift I lose that option. And further if my opponent asks me to mark my ball - and i hadnt for whatever reason exercised my right to finish as above - maybe there was earth on my ball - I can then mark lift and clean my ball and THEN I can replace and exercise my right to finish off.

Blimey - that is a significant change in my thinking

Matchplay is different , AFAIK you can putt out of turn but your not entitled to, & ur opponent has the right to make you put it back/replace it and take the putt again when its ur turn ..(Seve , Ryder cup )


Must admit im reading it the same as Gary .. i can walk up and tap it in/ hole out no problem , but

if i lift and mark i lose that right .. BUT

even if i do mark and lif and lose the right , there is no penalty


Apologies if i have that donkey ways around

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Matchplay is different , AFAIK you can putt out of turn but your not entitled to, & ur opponent has the right to make you put it back/replace it and take the putt again when its ur turn ..(Seve , Ryder cup )


Must admit im reading it the same as Gary .. i can walk up and tap it in/ hole out no problem , but

if i lift and mark i lose that right .. BUT

even if i do mark and lif and lose the right , there is no penalty


Apologies if i have that donkey ways around

Sorry - I've got confused now. I thought the discussion was really in the context of matchplay as order of play in stroke play is largely a matter of etiquette as far as I've always considered it. I can see that if someone persistently plays out of turn in stroke play there needs to be some form of sanction. But strictness in order of play as I thought was being discussed here was i thought more to do with matchplay

Accepting 10-2b as stated for strokeplay

 

[bladeplayer]

Sorry - I've got confused now. I thought the discussion was really in the context of matchplay as order of play in stroke play is largely a matter of etiquette as far as I've always considered it. I can see that if someone persistently plays out of turn in stroke play there needs to be some form of sanction. But strictness in order of play as I thought was being discussed here was i thought more to do with matchplay

Accepting 10-2b as stated for strokeplay

Hence the apology if i have it wrong bit at the end ha

 

[duncan mackie]

Sorry - I've got confused now. I thought the discussion was really in the context of matchplay as order of play in stroke play is largely a matter of etiquette as far as I've always considered it. I can see that if someone persistently plays out of turn in stroke play there needs to be some form of sanction. But strictness in order of play as I thought was being discussed here was i thought more to do with matchplay

Accepting 10-2b as stated for st0rokeplay

The discussion is about stroke play - 10-2 only covers stroke play

The option to play out exists under 10-2 and does not apply to matchplay. If you played out when requested to mark your opponent has the option under 10-1c to request you to replay the shot.