Official WHS Survey

[AussieKB]

I have stopped playing in certain Club's Open's due to the crazy high scores which are unachievable for me off 4 handicap, not that I expect to win, but would like to think if I did play well I had a chance.

Have noticed that the numbers are down in the majority of Open's that I play, main reason for me to keep playing them is to catch up with old friends and play a different course.

 

[rulie]

Yes there’s always been cheats.
But to make it so easy for them is criminal and is ruining the sport .

That seems like a lot of hyperbole. The sport is not being "ruined" by WHS or any handicap system. Maybe it's ruining your enjoyment, but the sport is larger than that.

 

[ExRabbit]

That seems like a lot of hyperbole. The sport is not being "ruined" by WHS or any handicap system. Maybe it's ruining your enjoyment, but the sport is larger than that.

Is it though?

How many people have to be upset by the new system so it needs to be looked at again?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

good to see clubs openly and clearly stating this now. Hopefully more to follow

 

[rulie]

Is it though?

How many people have to be upset by the new system so it needs to be looked at again?

It's being looked at through the survey. If there is a major(ity) issue, it will likely be addressed. There will always be objectors who feel like victims.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

It's being looked at through the survey. If there is a major(ity) issue, it will likely be addressed. There will always be objectors who feel like victims.

The survey was anonymous but you did specify your length of time playing and handicap bracket. It should identify areas of discontent that may better help to focus a solution. The questions were quite subjective imo. It wasn't just a 'hands up who likes WHS?' type survey.

Hopefully some good will come of it.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

There is one person on this forum using a sock account, and that's you, please stop gaslighting people who have been here a long time and are posting as themselves

As for struggling to understand WHS, you can't even follow your own arguments, "never used UHS" and then comes along and says played club golf for 20 years. I fwiw understand WHS only too well as a h'cap sec, and it is terrible.

You posted a spread sheet to a sessions results at your course which consisted errors. A spreadsheet does not equal statistical analysis.

Have you worked out the statistical likelihood of those results based on the membership of your club, entrants to the event, how far the winning score was from the expected normal of that player, the difference in stablefords to medal, does the weather make a difference to outcomes?

the link doesn’t work

Is it though?

How many people have to be upset by the new system so it needs to be looked at again?

A few clearly, but in the grand scheme of amateur golf it’s not that many.

To claim it is ruining the game is laughable.

Some people are viewing things through their own narrow perspective.
We’ve no comp on Saturday, haven’t had one for weeks but the tee sheets are full.

I played in a competition between me, my son and my mate. A nice 3 way skins game. We had fun.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

Some is enough to undermine the system for many unfortunately.

People have been manipulating handicaps since the invention of handicaps. Did you think the previous system was undermined because of it?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

We’ve no comp on Saturday, haven’t had one for weeks but the tee sheets are full

I couldn't be a member at a club like that, this Saturday is our second stableford of the year, I didn't play the last one and won't be playing this one, I've got my first social game of the year (outwith rounds with my partner) and taking on two guests instead

Social golf bores me, there has to be something to play for

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

I couldn't be a member at a club like that, this Saturday is our second stableford of the year, I didn't play the last one and won't be playing this one, I've got my first social game of the year (out with rounds with my partner) and taking on two guests instead

Social golf bores me, there has to be something to play for

It’s literally no different, and there is always something to play for. That’s the beauty of golf.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

You posted a spread sheet to a sessions results at your course which consisted errors.

And here we have the boris-effect in full flow, post a lie as mjweather has done and some will believe it despite the evidence in front of their face

There was a typo, one solitary typo that didn't change the winning category so no real matter, plus I had an error, one solitary error, where I'd said a cat 3 won by 4 shots, I'd missed a cat 2 was also four shots ahead of the best cat 1 that day, so it was a countback between the duffers sections. As I said to MJ at the time, that hardly helped his case, quite the opposite

 

[clubchamp98]

That seems like a lot of hyperbole. The sport is not being "ruined" by WHS or any handicap system. Maybe it's ruining your enjoyment, but the sport is larger than that.

The Sport part of the game is competition and that’s not going well atm.
You like it great.
I don’t .

 

[Banchory Buddha]

A spreadsheet does not equal statistical analysis.

You asked for stats, I posted stats, now you want analysis? Isn't that for you to do now that I've provided those stats?

What did they show? Well they showed that in one round trophies, cat 1 didn't win a single one

They showed that the smallest group (the uber-duffers) out performed the mid section and low section considerably

The whole season showed that if a cat 1 did win a Saturday overall, they sneaked it, whereas higher handicaps could come in well ahead of the field with unbeatable scores

Did anyone outperform their expected score? Well you tell me Mr world handicap system, because that term has not been defined, it's part of PCC and yet as mjweathers clip from WHS shows, there is no definition. Isn't WHS wonderful?

 

[Voyager EMH]

It’s literally no different, and there is always something to play for. That’s the beauty of golf.

There are many at my club who view social golf as their main hobby.
Thy love the cut-and-thrust of a fiercely contended 2 vs 2 betterball matchplay game. They get a "buzz" from this.

They view individual club comps as a boring soulless uninteresting way to play. They play a few, but get little enjoyment from doing so.

They enjoy team matches, AmAms, scrambles, 5 day trip to Turkey or Portugal with mates etc.

They like "winning" in social golf and team events so have little desire to see their handicap come down. I call these "vanity handicaps".

 

[Banchory Buddha]

It’s literally no different, and there is always something to play for. That’s the beauty of golf.

Literally competitive golf and social golf are the same, literally? Literally the same.....

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

Literally competitive golf and social golf are the same, literally? Literally the same.....

Yes. You hit a ball with a stick until you get it in the hole.

 

[IanM]

It’s literally no different, and there is always something to play for. That’s the beauty of golf.

My wife and I nipping out for 9 holes on a warm summer evening....

Teeing up in the first round of the Club Championships.

Mmmmm, I wonder?

 

[Voyager EMH]

Yes. You hit a ball with a stick until you get it in the hole.

Except that in social golf it will often be the case that your putt will be conceded and you don't get it in the hole.
Or you've messed up, pick up, and hope your partner does well on that hole.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

You asked for stats, I posted stats, now you want analysis? Isn't that for you to do now that I've provided those stats?

What did they show? Well they showed that in one round trophies, cat 1 didn't win a single one

They showed that the smallest group (the uber-duffers) out performed the mid section and low section considerably

The whole season showed that if a cat 1 did win a Saturday overall, they sneaked it, whereas higher handicaps could come in well ahead of the field with unbeatable scores

Did anyone outperform their expected score? Well you tell me Mr world handicap system, because that term has not been defined, it's part of PCC and yet as mjweathers clip from WHS shows, there is no definition. Isn't WHS wonderful?

One season at one club is hardly a deep statistical analysis of the WHS. Just posting winners handicaps tells us nothing. Is your course short and relatively easy, what was the weather like? On a calm day at my course I would except the higher handicaps to do well as the course plays much easier.

Re the bit in bold. You have talked about consistency and how consistent golfers can’t win anymore. Did the winners of your comps shoot a score within their expected range. Or was the score an outlier? See the example I posted if that helps you understand.

Can you tell us what the exact tipping point is for becoming uncompetitive at you course, and maybe in general?

I’m surprised to see you make such insulting remarks about high handicappers given how upset you were when it was suggested that high single figures wasn’t really really all that good. There is really no need to call them uber duffers is there?

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

Except that in social golf it will often be the case that your putt will be conceded and you don't get it in the hole.
Or you've messed up, pick up, and hope your partner does well on that hole.

You might, we don’t.

The point is to get the ball in the hole.