D
Official WHS Survey
- Thread starter Banchory Buddha
- Start date
nickjdavis
Head Pro
Oh come on mate....lighten up a bit...the smiley should have told you there was plenty of tongue in cheek in my post.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Nope, just highlighting 1 part of it that goes against what BB stated.
WorldHandicapSystem
Member
And?
What’s the answer?
Take the real world example of a young lad at my club won 4 comps in a row and came 2nd in the 5th earlier this year. The first was a monthly stableford at the beginning of the year off a playing handicap of 48.
At the start of the year his index was in the 50s it’s now mid teens and he’s won a few comps on the way down. He’s over 50 scores in his record this year. If he was only allowed to put in comp scores there is a good chance he would have won a hell of a lot more. Looking at his GP rounds from earlier in the year there are a couple that would have been 50 stableford points even with a couple of blobs.
I did the same when I started. Was off 28 for a few weeks before winning a monthly medal and down to 24. The first year I won loads of comps and 4BBB opens as the handicap system couldn’t catch up with my rate of improvement. I won a lot, and I was called all sorts of names by older members. Now, if I had been encouraged and able to put in GP scores at any time, I would not have won anywhere near as much as my handicap would have come down much quicker.
So it happened back then.
What mechanism would you put in place to compensate for these situations?
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
We always were...neither good enough or bad enough to win anything.
I remember those days when I won two board comps off 5
Just a bridesmaid now
well sometimes only invited to the evening do
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
What about when we see people winning comps but their handicap actually goes up because the new round is worse than the round that just dropped off
In the past “fast improving players” were given esrs etc and HC committees were also able to add cuts etc
Backache
Assistant Pro
All I can say about rounds of a lifetime is that from observation there are a lot more cats playing golf amongst high handicappers since the WHS was introduced as nine lives would seem to be the norm now .
WorldHandicapSystem
Member
Winning a comp and handicap movement have nothing to do with one another. If people want that there a plenty of societies they can join.What about when we see people winning comps but their handicap actually goes up because the new round is worse than the round that just dropped off
In the past “fast improving players” were given esrs etc and HC committees were also able to add cuts etc
If you shot net level or over par to win, why should you get an automatic reduction in handicap?
PaulMdj
Well-known member
I’m not sure they outweighed the amount that were nowhere near being off 28 and won nothing while being told to suck it up and get their handicap down.What about when we see people winning comps but their handicap actually goes up because the new round is worse than the round that just dropped off
In the past “fast improving players” were given esrs etc and HC committees were also able to add cuts etc
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
No idea how many above 28 are winning comps - we don’t seem to have any, the guys off 28 are those that used to be mid 20’s and didn’t win then
Most of the guys we see winning comps are those that’s are
9-13 that used to be off 4/5
Or guys off 18 plus that used to be single figure
rulefan
Tour Winner
Your chance of winning may or may not be low but given that you are consistent, what score would be a poor score? What is the lowest in your 8 from 20?
IMO, disregarding GP cheating, one of the causes of high cappers seemingly winning too many now, is the old UHS ratchet and the change of emphasis from 'potential' to 'form'. Where under UHS a 'poor' score only increased caps by 0.1, this could mean an erratic (hi cap) player not going up quickly enough. Whereas now the WHS 8/20 reflects this more rapidly and the odd flash-in-the-pan comes to the fore. Unfortunately this and to some extent poor committees has highlighted the phenomenon.
WorldHandicapSystem
Member
The lowest winning score at my club this year was in a seniors comp with a net 61. Spot the winning score.
Most weekly comps would be won comfortably with 41 points.
Lots of stablefords are won with under 40 points, medals with net 69/70. There are outlines of course, but in general winning scores are sensible often in medals div 1 will be lower than div 2. Maybe it’s because the course is fairly long and reasonably difficult. If you play a short easier course I would except to see more higher handicaps winning.
Maybe one of the resident statisticians can normalise the data to include course difficulty, number of members and participants per handicap range, the standard deviation for players within those group, highlight any outliers, what was the weather like, had the player been to the range or pub the night before and so on…..
Most weekly comps would be won comfortably with 41 points.
Lots of stablefords are won with under 40 points, medals with net 69/70. There are outlines of course, but in general winning scores are sensible often in medals div 1 will be lower than div 2. Maybe it’s because the course is fairly long and reasonably difficult. If you play a short easier course I would except to see more higher handicaps winning.
Maybe one of the resident statisticians can normalise the data to include course difficulty, number of members and participants per handicap range, the standard deviation for players within those group, highlight any outliers, what was the weather like, had the player been to the range or pub the night before and so on…..
rulefan
Tour Winner
I don't know if the information is available but I would be interested in seeing the result stats where these 'outlandish' scores have been recorded.
Size of field
No of low cappers (say old cat 1) in top 10%
No of high cappers (say over 30) in top 10%
Caps and scores of top 5
Par
Size of field
No of low cappers (say old cat 1) in top 10%
No of high cappers (say over 30) in top 10%
Caps and scores of top 5
Par
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Was replying to your point about the past, I thought you were on about pre-WHS.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Was replying to your point about the past, I thought you were on about pre-WHS.
Pre WhS
Looking back and there seems to be a decent spread of winners
Handicaps ranging from 1 up to 28 winning a comp - the 28 handicap one of the new guys to golf improving
PaulMdj
Well-known member
As previous:
Our last Ind handicap comp had 113 entrants, it was a stroke comp:
0 - Old style Cat 1, top Old style Cat 1 was 15th. Top 10%
0 - high cappers over 30, top over 30 was 37th. Top 10%
Overall result:
26 - 58
12 - 63
11 - 64
19 - 64
19 - 64
Par 70
22 Entrants out of 43 were +1 to 9 in Div 1 (handicaps +1 to 12)
Div 2 had 43 entrants, range 13-20
Div 3 had 27 entrants, range 21-36
Overall winner - as above
Div 1 was won with a nett 63,
Div 2 was won with a nett 64,
No Div 3 as he won overall
Best gross, Guy off +1 had a gross 66.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Having a look at our last Stableford
117 entered
In the top 10% we had 1 old cat one in the top 10%
We had no one over 30 playing in the comp
It’s a par 71 and the top scores and handicap were
1. 23 Handicap getting 43 points
2. 15 handicap - 41
3. 14 handicap - 41
4. 15 handicap - 41
5. 6 handicap - 40
D
Deleted member 36483
Guest
To those that believe the few on here, who are trying to articulate the issues they have experienced with WHS, are somehow in a minority how would you explain the existence of these articles? And there are more...
www.golfshake.com
www.golfshake.com
www.golfmonthly.com
www.gcma.org.uk
www.nationalclubgolfer.com
The World Handicap System Continues to Cause Controversy
After writing about his experiences of returning to the game and gaining a golf handicap, Golfshake's Derek Clements received a wide variety of comments and responses from keen golfers about the World Handicap System. He now shares those and reacts to what was said.
The World Handicap System Continues to Divide Golfers
The World Handicap System was introduced in Britain amid much fanfare more than two years ago. It was supposed to end the debate once and for all. But many of you still have serious issues with it. In our recent annual Golfshake Survey it once again turned out to be a thorny subject for you.
Why The World Handicap System Has Ruined Golf For Low Handicappers
Single figure golfer Carly Frost says the World Handicap System has caused a sensational and unpopular shake-up of handicaps
www.golfmonthly.com
It's time to have your say on the World Handicap System - GCMA
Clubs and golfers are being urged by the R&A and USGA to give their opinions in a new World Handicap System survey
www.gcma.org.uk
The World Handicap System has left club competitions in a mess – and only YOU can fix it
The cure for our WHS issues may be worse than the disease. But, asks Steve Carroll, are we prepared to completely change the way we think about the game?
www.nationalclubgolfer.com
WorldHandicapSystem
Member
Click bait in some cases.
One is just informing that there is a survey. Others the usual complaining from people who can’t grasp the change or don’t understand the system.
It’s time we stopped moaning about WHS
Do any of those articles answer the questions you keep swerving?
54 handicap limit has nothing to do with WHS. Good grief man, at least know what you're arguing about