Official WHS Survey

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Of course they do! Hasn’t Aussie given an example of a genuine guy off 38 winning their latest comp?

Was he lying or are we not to trust him?

You just preferred the previous system were that guy would of lost 10 shots for that comp and stood no chance.

I whole heartadly agree about cheats
I think you're misrepresenting the point that @AussieKB was making.

A lot of politicians on here.
 
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@RichA asked that question.
And?

What’s the answer?

Take the real world example of a young lad at my club won 4 comps in a row and came 2nd in the 5th earlier this year. The first was a monthly stableford at the beginning of the year off a playing handicap of 48.

At the start of the year his index was in the 50s it’s now mid teens and he’s won a few comps on the way down. He’s over 50 scores in his record this year. If he was only allowed to put in comp scores there is a good chance he would have won a hell of a lot more. Looking at his GP rounds from earlier in the year there are a couple that would have been 50 stableford points even with a couple of blobs.

I did the same when I started. Was off 28 for a few weeks before winning a monthly medal and down to 24. The first year I won loads of comps and 4BBB opens as the handicap system couldn’t catch up with my rate of improvement. I won a lot, and I was called all sorts of names by older members. Now, if I had been encouraged and able to put in GP scores at any time, I would not have won anywhere near as much as my handicap would have come down much quicker.

So it happened back then.

What mechanism would you put in place to compensate for these situations?
 

Arthur Wedge

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And?

What’s the answer?

Take the real world example of a young lad at my club won 4 comps in a row and came 2nd in the 5th earlier this year. The first was a monthly stableford at the beginning of the year off a playing handicap of 48.

At the start of the year his index was in the 50s it’s now mid teens and he’s won a few comps on the way down. He’s over 50 scores in his record this year. If he was only allowed to put in comp scores there is a good chance he would have won a hell of a lot more. Looking at his GP rounds from earlier in the year there are a couple that would have been 50 stableford points even with a couple of blobs.

I did the same when I started. Was off 28 for a few weeks before winning a monthly medal and down to 24. The first year I won loads of comps and 4BBB opens as the handicap system couldn’t catch up with my rate of improvement. I won a lot, and I was called all sorts of names by older members. Now, if I had been encouraged and able to put in GP scores at any time, I would not have won anywhere near as much as my handicap would have come down much quicker.

So it happened back then.

What mechanism would you put in place to compensate for these situations?

What about when we see people winning comps but their handicap actually goes up because the new round is worse than the round that just dropped off 🤔


In the past “fast improving players” were given esrs etc and HC committees were also able to add cuts etc
 

Backache

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All I can say about rounds of a lifetime is that from observation there are a lot more cats playing golf amongst high handicappers since the WHS was introduced as nine lives would seem to be the norm now .
 
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What about when we see people winning comps but their handicap actually goes up because the new round is worse than the round that just dropped off 🤔


In the past “fast improving players” were given esrs etc and HC committees were also able to add cuts etc
Winning a comp and handicap movement have nothing to do with one another. If people want that there a plenty of societies they can join.

If you shot net level or over par to win, why should you get an automatic reduction in handicap?
 

PaulMdj

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What about when we see people winning comps but their handicap actually goes up because the new round is worse than the round that just dropped off 🤔


In the past “fast improving players” were given esrs etc and HC committees were also able to add cuts etc
I’m not sure they outweighed the amount that were nowhere near being off 28 and won nothing while being told to suck it up and get their handicap down.
 

Arthur Wedge

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I’m not sure they outweighed the amount that were nowhere near being off 28 and won nothing while being told to suck it up and get their handicap down.

No idea how many above 28 are winning comps - we don’t seem to have any, the guys off 28 are those that used to be mid 20’s and didn’t win then

Most of the guys we see winning comps are those that’s are

9-13 that used to be off 4/5


Or guys off 18 plus that used to be single figure
 

rulefan

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My best round of the year was SD = 1.0. This is the lowest in my last 20.
Since launch of WHS, I have only one score in 4 years (115 scores) that is just one shot better than that.

My current HI is 4.6
My second best round in my last 20 is SD = 3.6. This is exactly one below my HI.
A very good round for me is one below handicap.

I feel that I have very little chance in club comps, because my handicap is low and I am fairly consistent with regard to the scores in my best 8 from 20.

My question,
Am I wrong to feel that I have an unfair little chance in club comps with 100 or so entrants?
Your chance of winning may or may not be low but given that you are consistent, what score would be a poor score? What is the lowest in your 8 from 20?

IMO, disregarding GP cheating, one of the causes of high cappers seemingly winning too many now, is the old UHS ratchet and the change of emphasis from 'potential' to 'form'. Where under UHS a 'poor' score only increased caps by 0.1, this could mean an erratic (hi cap) player not going up quickly enough. Whereas now the WHS 8/20 reflects this more rapidly and the odd flash-in-the-pan comes to the fore. Unfortunately this and to some extent poor committees has highlighted the phenomenon.
 
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The lowest winning score at my club this year was in a seniors comp with a net 61. Spot the winning score.

IMG_0060.png

Most weekly comps would be won comfortably with 41 points.

Lots of stablefords are won with under 40 points, medals with net 69/70. There are outlines of course, but in general winning scores are sensible often in medals div 1 will be lower than div 2. Maybe it’s because the course is fairly long and reasonably difficult. If you play a short easier course I would except to see more higher handicaps winning.

Maybe one of the resident statisticians can normalise the data to include course difficulty, number of members and participants per handicap range, the standard deviation for players within those group, highlight any outliers, what was the weather like, had the player been to the range or pub the night before and so on…..
 

rulefan

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I don't know if the information is available but I would be interested in seeing the result stats where these 'outlandish' scores have been recorded.

Size of field
No of low cappers (say old cat 1) in top 10%
No of high cappers (say over 30) in top 10%
Caps and scores of top 5
Par
 

PaulMdj

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No idea how many above 28 are winning comps - we don’t seem to have any, the guys off 28 are those that used to be mid 20’s and didn’t win then

Most of the guys we see winning comps are those that’s are

9-13 that used to be off 4/5


Or guys off 18 plus that used to be single figure
Was replying to your point about the past, I thought you were on about pre-WHS.👍🏻
 

PaulMdj

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I don't know if the information is available but I would be interested in seeing the result stats where these 'outlandish' scores have been recorded.

Size of field
No of low cappers (say old cat 1) in top 10%
No of high cappers (say over 30) in top 10%
Caps and scores of top 5
Par
As previous:
Our last Ind handicap comp had 113 entrants, it was a stroke comp:

0 - Old style Cat 1, top Old style Cat 1 was 15th. Top 10%
0 - high cappers over 30, top over 30 was 37th. Top 10%

Overall result:
26 - 58
12 - 63
11 - 64
19 - 64
19 - 64

Par 70

22 Entrants out of 43 were +1 to 9 in Div 1 (handicaps +1 to 12)

Div 2 had 43 entrants, range 13-20

Div 3 had 27 entrants, range 21-36

Overall winner - as above
Div 1 was won with a nett 63,
Div 2 was won with a nett 64,
No Div 3 as he won overall
Best gross, Guy off +1 had a gross 66.
 

Arthur Wedge

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I don't know if the information is available but I would be interested in seeing the result stats where these 'outlandish' scores have been recorded.

Size of field
No of low cappers (say old cat 1) in top 10%
No of high cappers (say over 30) in top 10%
Caps and scores of top 5
Par

Having a look at our last Stableford

117 entered

In the top 10% we had 1 old cat one in the top 10%

We had no one over 30 playing in the comp


It’s a par 71 and the top scores and handicap were

1. 23 Handicap getting 43 points

2. 15 handicap - 41
3. 14 handicap - 41
4. 15 handicap - 41
5. 6 handicap - 40
 
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To those that believe the few on here, who are trying to articulate the issues they have experienced with WHS, are somehow in a minority how would you explain the existence of these articles? And there are more...





 
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To those that believe the few on here, who are trying to articulate the issues they have experienced with WHS, are somehow in a minority how would you explain the existence of these articles? And there are more...
Click bait in some cases.

One is just informing that there is a survey. Others the usual complaining from people who can’t grasp the change or don’t understand the system.

It’s time we stopped moaning about WHS

Do any of those articles answer the questions you keep swerving?
 
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Of course they do! Hasn’t Aussie given an example of a genuine guy off 38 winning their latest comp?

Was he lying or are we not to trust him?

You just preferred the previous system were that guy would of lost 10 shots for that comp and stood no chance.

I whole heartadly agree about cheats
54 handicap limit has nothing to do with WHS. Good grief man, at least know what you're arguing about
 
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