Official WHS Survey

[Deleted member 36483]

So prior to WHS and max 28 you think he had a chance giving the guy only 24 shots? Was that because 24 is possible or the guy was a genuine 38 and was also losing 10 shots before he teed off?

Of course he did. The previous system made it more likely that your handicap was close to what you expected to play like when you were on form. Consistent players were always close to their form.

38 pts would have normally put you in good position to win at my club, now it's often 30th place!

I do realise that if you played in a less organised club then there were difficulties with handicapping even prior to WHS. I believe that you are hearing from a number of posters on this forum who are members of very well organised and long established clubs where that wasn't an issue. It's become a glaring issue in those clubs since WHS was introduced.

 

[PaulMdj]

Like I said high handicappers will always have a day in the sun and score big, for me off 4 handicap (today) I do not stand much of a chance, plus at 71 years of age it is not like I am going to get better.

I genuinely dream of reaching your level of golf, I really do.

I just don’t understand why you’ve ever thought you’d have a realistic chance in a handicap comp, regardless of which system is used.

Our last Ind handicap comp had 113 entrants, it was a stroke comp:

22 Entrants out of 43 were +1 to 9 in Div 1 (handicaps +1 to 12)

Div 2 had 43 entrants, range 13-20

Div 3 had 27 entrants, range 21-36

It was won with a nett 58, 12 under by a bloke off 26!

Another genuine guy with a round of a lifetime,

Div 1 was won with a nett 63, guy off 12, also his best ever round.

Guy off +1 had a nett 67.

These scores happen, our “top” players use the handicap comps as practise and never expect to come even close to winning these comps, they still try their best, their focus is Club Champs and scratch comps in local area.

 

[PaulMdj]

Of course he did. The previous system made it more likely that your handicap was close to what you expected to play like when you were on form. Consistent players were always close to their form.

38 pts would have normally put you in good position to win at my club, now it's often 30th place!

I do realise that if you played in a less organised club then there were difficulties with handicapping even prior to WHS. I believe that you are hearing from a number of posters on this forum who are members of very well organised and long established clubs where that wasn't an issue. It's become a glaring issue in those clubs since WHS was introduced.

Ours is 113yrs old and never had these issues then or now.

But going back to above, you’ve still ignored the fact that the 38 handicapper would of lost 10 shots and you state the bit in bold! How was that fair to him? The high handicapper would have absolute zero consistencey.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

Ours is 113yrs old and never had these issues then or now.

But going back to above, you’ve still ignored the fact that the 38 handicapper would of lost 10 shots and you state the bit in bold! How was that fair to him? The high handicapper would have absolute zero consistencey.

Didn't you just mention to @AussieKB that your last competition was won by a 26 handicapper with nett 58?

 

[PaulMdj]

Didn't you just mention to @AussieKB that your last competition was won by a 26 handicapper with nett 58?

Yes and I don’t see it as an issue and neither did the Club handicap committee, his record is there for all to see on the EG App, he’s been a member a few years, worked to get his handicap down and had the round of his life, he was congratulated, not scorned or accussed of cheating.

His previous best round this year was a gross 100, he’s now off 21.4.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

Yes and I don’t see it as an issue and neither did the Club handicap committee, his record is there for all to see on the EG App, he’s been a member a few years, worked to get his handicap down and had the round of his life, he was congratulated, not scorned or accussed of cheating.

His previous best round this year was a gross 100, he’s now off 21.4.

Other clubs and members would see that as an issue but that's you and your club's prerogative I guess. Nothing more for me to say.

 

[rulefan]

Played today 117 players in the field and the winner with 42 points off a 38 handicap, I know him and he is genuine, but for me to have that I would have had to shoot 2 under par, I shot 6 over.

No sour grapes about him winning it is just that in all these events with over 60 players a high handicapper will have a day out and win, for me if I shoot level par for 40 points I am still not a chance.

61 in the field of 20 handicap and above, the highest was 40.

So I do not know how people can say it is a fair system, when the low handicapper who is consistent really does not have much of a chance even when they play well.

Is level par within your max of best 8 of 20? Have you played to par within the last 20 ? Was the 6 over in your best 8?
Do you reckon you played well?

 

[AussieKB]

Is level par within your max of best 8 of 20? Have you played to par within the last 20 ? Was the 6 over in your best 8?
Do you reckon you played well?

Last 20 scores, best is 3 over par at an away course I have not played in 4 years, a top rated course in Perth,
so mostly I shoot 3-6 over, except for the odd day.

Last year I shot my age, (70) and also beat it (69) both at away courses, did not feature in the nett in either.

Always think and hope that I will shoot par.

 

[Voyager EMH]

My best round of the year was SD = 1.0. This is the lowest in my last 20.
Since launch of WHS, I have only one score in 4 years (115 scores) that is just one shot better than that.

My current HI is 4.6
My second best round in my last 20 is SD = 3.6. This is exactly one below my HI.
A very good round for me is one below handicap.

I feel that I have very little chance in club comps, because my handicap is low and I am fairly consistent with regard to the scores in my best 8 from 20.

My question,
Am I wrong to feel that I have an unfair little chance in club comps with 100 or so entrants?

 

[Deleted member 36483]

My best round of the year was SD = 1.0. This is the lowest in my last 20.
Since launch of WHS, I have only one score in 4 years (115 scores) that is just one shot better than that.

My current HI is 4.6
My second best round in my last 20 is SD = 3.6. This is exactly one below my HI.
A very good round for me is one below handicap.

I feel that I have very little chance in club comps, because my handicap is low and I am fairly consistent with regard to the scores in my best 8 from 20.

My question,
Am I wrong to feel that I have an unfair little chance in club comps with 100 or so entrants?

Not wrong. Despite what some posters have said it was fair before WHS, at least in my club.

I'm not a fan of a form handicap but I do think it could be greatly improved simply by factoring in some adjustment based on consistency. I know my handicap would be realistic if I subtracted one standard deviation from my current index. Obviously that value is bigger with wider ranges. They might look into do something like that as a compromise but I hope they go further.

 

[AussieKB]

Not wrong. Despite what some posters have said it was fair before WHS, at least in my club.

I'm not a fan of a form handicap but I do think it could be greatly improved simply by factoring in some adjustment based on consistency. I know my handicap would be realistic if I subtracted one standard deviation from my current index. Obviously that value is bigger with wider ranges. They might look into do something like that as a compromise but I hope they go further.

Sorry it is about looking after the high boys.......consistency is a curse.

 

[PaulMdj]

My best round of the year was SD = 1.0. This is the lowest in my last 20.
Since launch of WHS, I have only one score in 4 years (115 scores) that is just one shot better than that.

My current HI is 4.6
My second best round in my last 20 is SD = 3.6. This is exactly one below my HI.
A very good round for me is one below handicap.

I feel that I have very little chance in club comps, because my handicap is low and I am fairly consistent with regard to the scores in my best 8 from 20.

My question,
Am I wrong to feel that I have an unfair little chance in club comps with 100 or so entrants?

Before I answer your question, I would ask you if you thought you stood a better chance in the same field prior to WHS.

In answer to your question, I feel you are wrong, because imo, you low Single figure Golfers have never had much of a chance in any handicap comp due to the sheer numbers you are up against.

 

[PaulMdj]

Other clubs and members would see that as an issue but that's you and your club's prerogative I guess. Nothing more for me to say.

Hopefully one of them will be along soon to explain what the issue is.

 

[AussieKB]

I always thought that in a Medal round I had a chance if I shot a couple under my handicap pre WHS, now I know I don't stand a chance.

 

[PaulMdj]

I always thought that in a Medal round I had a chance if I shot a couple under my handicap pre WHS, now I know I don't stand a chance.

Been at my current Club over 20 years and can’t ever remember any comp being won, gross or nett, 2 over Par.

 

[Slab]

I never really think I have much of a chance of a win in a comp. I'm only one player after all

So in a field of say 80 that's just a 1.3% chance even if everyones handicap was 100% accurate. Thems not good odds really. Throw in expected handicap fluctuations and the odds of a win are even shorter

 

[Deleted member 36483]

I never really think I have much of a chance of a win in a comp. I'm only one player after all

So in a field of say 80 that's just a 1.3% chance even if everyones handicap was 100% accurate. Thems not good odds really. Throw in expected handicap fluctuations and the odds of a win are even shorter

The point is not that you think you might win today, it's about thinking that if you play a good round then you are in the hunt and perhaps even win. That thought is gone now for anyone who was consistent as 2 or 3 under your handicap (normal weather etc) was good enough but no longer.

Some of you are describing clubs that aren't representative of the 3 clubs I've been a member of in my life. It's interesting to hear that point of view.

 

[PaulMdj]

The point is not that you think you might win today, it's about thinking that if you play a good round then you are in the hunt and perhaps even win. That thought is gone now for anyone who was consistent as 2 or 3 under your handicap (normal weather etc) was good enough but no longer.

Some of you are describing clubs that aren't representative of the 3 clubs I've been a member of in my life. It's interesting to hear that point of view.

Is this just your low single figure people again or is it also those in the 10-20 bracket who are consistent in the 2-3 range?

 

[Deleted member 36483]

Is this just your low single figure people again or is it also those in the 10-20 bracket who are consistent in the 2-3 range?

This is across the board. To maybe put it into more context I'm talking about a difficult track. You don't get away with much on it and higher handicap guys rarely had a great round.

 

[Slab]

The point is not that you think you might win today, it's about thinking that if you play a good round then you are in the hunt and perhaps even win. That thought is gone now for anyone who was consistent as 2 or 3 under your handicap (normal weather etc) was good enough but no longer.

Some of you are describing clubs that aren't representative of the 3 clubs I've been a member of in my life. It's interesting to hear that point of view.

Our club comps are usually pretty tight & last one was: Div 1 (0-12) was won with 43pts last weekend & considered a very good day. Div 2 (13-24 capped) had 41pts and lowest gross winner had 32pts
Previous comp in that club; Div 1 won with 33pts and Div 2 had 36pts, gross winner had 30pts

High thirties/touching forty and you can expect to be in the mix

Completely diff story at this weekends Open comp (& most Opens I play in) where the winner had 48pts !