Official WHS Survey

[Dunesman]

Another ridiculous reply , even if the 50 A's were off 1 handicap, the B's would still not win, and no system would have all the A's off even. Oh I see your system now, everyone plays off the best score they have ever had. Of course why didn't we all think of that

The thought experiment concerns itself exclusively with consistency not handicap index. It is a reply to the question posed by rulefan.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

Another ridiculous reply , even if the 50 A's were off 1 handicap, the B's would still not win, and no system would have all the A's off even. Oh I see your system now, everyone plays off the best score they have ever had. Of course why didn't we all think of that

I don't think you follow the point being made. Maybe I'm wrong about that but I'm confused by your response.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

Well we’ve well and truly jumped the shark in this little echo chamber.

Where are these consistent high handicappers? What dose that even mean?

Still no one has been able to give a credible mechanism for dealing with an improving player.

Dragging up 13 year old articles. Of course it was a topic of conversation when it was first introduced, it was here too. It’s just not anymore for the vast majority of players.

It’s becoming more apparent that it’s not just the WHS that some are concerned with, but they are overly concerned their version of how golf should be played is being eroded.
Unfortunately things change and the weekly drawn comp and aspiring to one day get to wear a club crested jacket is not what people want anymore.

 

[rulefan]

Where are these consistent high handicappers? What dose that even mean?

They are players in our Seniors section. Cap range from 15 to 35. Well over 50% in the upper 20s. Never play more than 3 - 5 over or under unless the weather affects their arthritis.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Dragging up 13 year old articles. Of course it was a topic of conversation when it was first introduced, it was here too. It’s just not anymore for the vast majority of players.

You've arrived on the forum and created a username specifically about WHS, to talk exclusively about WHS

"It's not a topic of conversation anymore"

 

[Deleted member 36483]

They are players in our Seniors section. Cap range from 15 to 35. Well over 50% in the upper 20s. Never play more than 3 - 5 over or under unless the weather affects their arthritis.

Yes and they're actually all through the handicap ranges. Conversely there are low handicappers who have quite a spread of scoring.

@WorldHandicapSystem is not so experienced in club golf I suspect. Ironic given the name!

 

[Deleted member 36483]

....

Still no one has been able to give a credible mechanism for dealing with an improving player.

@RichA asked that question.

 

[AussieKB]

Played today 117 players in the field and the winner with 42 points off a 38 handicap, I know him and he is genuine, but for me to have that I would have had to shoot 2 under par, I shot 6 over.

No sour grapes about him winning it is just that in all these events with over 60 players a high handicapper will have a day out and win, for me if I shoot level par for 40 points I am still not a chance.

61 in the field of 20 handicap and above, the highest was 40.

So I do not know how people can say it is a fair system, when the low handicapper who is consistent really does not have much of a chance even when they play well.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

Played today 117 players in the field and the winner with 42 points off a 38 handicap, I know him and he is genuine, but for me to have that I would have had to shoot 2 under par, I shot 6 over.

No sour grapes about him winning it is just that in all these events with over 60 players a high handicapper will have a day out and win, for me if I shoot level par for 40 points I am still not a chance.

61 in the field of 20 handicap and above, the highest was 40.

So I do not know how people can say it is a fair system, when the low handicapper who is consistent really does not have much of a chance even when they play well.

That 6 over may even have got you cut a little.

It's a farce of a system and anyone who has played competitive club golf can see that. Some who are at the beginning of their golfing journey may think it is fine but once they get a few years into the game they'll be joining the moaners, like us.

 

[PaulMdj]

Played today 117 players in the field and the winner with 42 points off a 38 handicap, I know him and he is genuine, but for me to have that I would have had to shoot 2 under par, I shot 6 over.

No sour grapes about him winning it is just that in all these events with over 60 players a high handicapper will have a day out and win, for me if I shoot level par for 40 points I am still not a chance.

61 in the field of 20 handicap and above, the highest was 40.

So I do not know how people can say it is a fair system, when the low handicapper who is consistent really does not have much of a chance even when they play well.

Again though! How many single figure Golfers genuinely expect to shoot 6 under in a handicap comp?

Sadly with 61 people off 20 and above I would expect 1 of those to shoot a daft score.

The result isn’t based on consistencey, it’s best round on the day! And totally irrelevant to how you’ve played yesterday or in the last month.

Was there divisional prizes?

 

[RichA]

Played today 117 players in the field and the winner with 42 points off a 38 handicap, I know him and he is genuine, but for me to have that I would have had to shoot 2 under par, I shot 6 over.

No sour grapes about him winning it is just that in all these events with over 60 players a high handicapper will have a day out and win, for me if I shoot level par for 40 points I am still not a chance.

61 in the field of 20 handicap and above, the highest was 40.

So I do not know how people can say it is a fair system, when the low handicapper who is consistent really does not have much of a chance even when they play well.

I don't understand why a good golfer would actually want to participate in a comp like this.
My only sports outside golf have been team sports.
In a cricket league we played in a divisional structure against teams of similar abilities. I wouldn't have put our first XI into a competition playing against made up pub teams of enthusiastic but talentless non-cricketers.
It seems more an issue of golf club competition formats rather than the handicapping mechanism itself.

 

[AussieKB]

Again though! How many single figure Golfers genuinely expect to shoot 6 under in a handicap comp?

Sadly with 61 people off 20 and above I would expect 1 of those to shoot a daft score.

The result isn’t based on consistencey, it’s best round on the day! And totally irrelevant to how you’ve played yesterday or in the last month.

Was there divisional prizes?

No divisions.....I need to chop it for a few months I think.

 

[PaulMdj]

I don't understand why a good golfer would actually want to participate in a comp like this.
My only sports outside golf have been team sports.
In a cricket league we played in a divisional structure against teams of similar abilities. I wouldn't have put our first XI into a competition playing against made up pub teams of enthusiastic but talentless non-cricketers.
It seems more an issue of golf club competition formats rather than the handicapping mechanism itself.

I don’t think the issue is with the format, more likely that you work all week, maybe fit in a round or some practise and the only day you can play on the weekend the Club are holding a comp, so it’s either play in the comp or miss out.

The issue to me, is the mindset of some low handicappers, they should be going out to play their best and hoping they put a good round together. Not, as some seem to be, worried that some guy is getting an extra 34 shots before they tee off and I have no chance of winning.

 

[PaulMdj]

No divisions.....I need to chop it for a few months I think.

Or keep playing well and look after your handicap and don’t enter handicap comps were you’ve very little chance.

 

[AussieKB]

I don’t think the issue is with the format, more likely that you work all week, maybe fit in a round or some practise and the only day you can play on the weekend the Club are holding a comp, so it’s either play in the comp or miss out.

The issue to me, is the mindset of some low handicappers, they should be going out to play their best and hoping they put a good round together. Not, as some seem to be, worried that some guy is getting an extra 34 shots before they tee off and I have no chance of winning.

The mindset is how do I give someone 34 or 40 shots and be competitive, everyone keeps saying it is even playing field when it is obvious to blind Freddy it is not, I find the high handicappers do not even try to get lower, they just know that once a month they will play well and clean up.

 

[PaulMdj]

The mindset is how do I give someone 34 or 40 shots and be competitive, everyone keeps saying it is even playing field when it is obvious to blind Freddy it is not, I find the high handicappers do not even try to get lower, they just know that once a month they will play well and clean up.

So this weeks winner was a genuine 38, but you find high handicappers do not even try to get lower?

Which is it?

If you genuinely want to be competitive I’d bin handicap comps off and aim for scratch comps only, it’ll save you a lot of frustration.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

The mindset is how do I give someone 34 or 40 shots and be competitive, everyone keeps saying it is even playing field when it is obvious to blind Freddy it is not, I find the high handicappers do not even try to get lower, they just know that once a month they will play well and clean up.

And this problem wasn't anywhere close to this level of prevalence before WHS. That's very annoying to say the least. I used to feel that little buzz on the 1st tee when competing. All gone now apart from some matchplay.

 

[AussieKB]

So this weeks winner was a genuine 38, but you find high handicappers do not even try to get lower?

Which is it?

If you genuinely want to be competitive I’d bin handicap comps off and aim for scratch comps only, it’ll save you a lot of frustration.

Like I said high handicappers will always have a day in the sun and score big, for me off 4 handicap (today) I do not stand much of a chance, plus at 71 years of age it is not like I am going to get better.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

No divisions.....I need to chop it for a few months I think.

You do, we all do. That's the sad reality.

 

[PaulMdj]

And this problem wasn't anywhere close to this level of prevalence before WHS. That's very annoying to say the least. I used to feel that little buzz on the 1st tee when competing. All gone now apart from some matchplay.

So prior to WHS and max 28 you think he had a chance giving the guy only 24 shots? Was that because 24 is possible or the guy was a genuine 38 and was also losing 10 shots before he teed off?