FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
To be honest, with things as they are, I'm not even sure Rangers will be in the championship next season. Which worries me far more than whether they get promoted or not!
Odds on Hibs Going Straight Back Up
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Reading a lot of posts from you it certainly appears I have a stronger grasp on reality that yourself
Couple of inaccuracies in your assumptions
Nowhere have I said anything about Rangers "sauntering" into the SPL
Also when have I ever suggesting anything about the SPL needing to be like the EPL ?! The EPL is irrelevant to the discussion
And when did I ever suggest anything about pricing fans out of going to games !
You can stick your head in the sand but the reality is if you want the Scottish prem to be a strong league with the chance of quality players which could breed talented young Scottish players then the league needs big teams in it . All the clubs need the league to be sponsered and need the telly money.
Young talent won't want to play in a league without big teams to test himself
You may slag of the EPL and it has it's negatives but the quailty is high and some of the best players in the world play in it
Scottish Prem right now is on a par with league 1
I remember in the 80's watching teams like Aberdeen win European trophies - that's not going to happen again
Fans may not like the OF clubs but the clubs need them if they want the league to improve
C
c1973
Guest
I think they will. The worry is this power struggle that is going on with the board and King etc. King has money to put in but I fear he ( with fans groups help unbelievably) is trying to get in on the cheap which means he could be waiting/hoping for another administration. The cash is there but will he get in?
19thagain
Head Pro
To reply to the OP - 10/1 in my opinion!
Butcher as with other managers and players, did well at my club, ICT. BUT the curse of leaving caught him out.
I would argue that he did not take ICT back up once relegated - Dundee FC offered a very big helping hand to him. Yes, we did our bit by winning but Dundee, well in front at halfway collapsed at the end of the season.
Butcher then used our winning boost to gain a foothold in the top flight and here we have stayed. Did we want Butcher to leave? We were sitting second in the league and playing well when HIBS came to call, so of course not.
He left us in a way that stole all the good feeling he had previously enjoyed. He had every right to go but to enjoy a well oiled knees up with his new (to be) employers including sitting with their directors during the HIBS v ICT match WHILST STATING HE WAS NOT LEAVING AND BEING PAID TO URGE ON MY TEAM TO VICTORY WHILE STILL BEING PAID BT ICT!
He deserves all he gets, if HIBS employed a person that they saw was prepared to behave in this manner, they too deserve all they have coming to them.
HIBS .... a potentially super team with one of the best supports in Scotland - going out to cheer on good players who were totally mismanaged. A shame for the players and fans but reflective of the management and Board.
Butcher as with other managers and players, did well at my club, ICT. BUT the curse of leaving caught him out.
I would argue that he did not take ICT back up once relegated - Dundee FC offered a very big helping hand to him. Yes, we did our bit by winning but Dundee, well in front at halfway collapsed at the end of the season.
Butcher then used our winning boost to gain a foothold in the top flight and here we have stayed. Did we want Butcher to leave? We were sitting second in the league and playing well when HIBS came to call, so of course not.
He left us in a way that stole all the good feeling he had previously enjoyed. He had every right to go but to enjoy a well oiled knees up with his new (to be) employers including sitting with their directors during the HIBS v ICT match WHILST STATING HE WAS NOT LEAVING AND BEING PAID TO URGE ON MY TEAM TO VICTORY WHILE STILL BEING PAID BT ICT!
He deserves all he gets, if HIBS employed a person that they saw was prepared to behave in this manner, they too deserve all they have coming to them.
HIBS .... a potentially super team with one of the best supports in Scotland - going out to cheer on good players who were totally mismanaged. A shame for the players and fans but reflective of the management and Board.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Well you saw Aberdeen win one and Dundee Utd come close. We want the best standard of football we can afford; decent atmosphere at games; a cup run or two; and with luck some games in Europe every so often. Now that's not very ambitious - but with the OF that's how it will be and always has been. We have a few years while Rangers get themselves sorted out during which the last becomes achievable.
And watching Rotherham vs Leyton Orient this weekend I am pretty sure that St Johnstone could compete with and beat both. Rotherham population 250,000 - Perth population 44,000.
I can't believe that folk think that Sevco won't win the League next season,I really can't.
They will saunter to the title.
They will saunter to the title.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
And just exactly how did the league improve over the last 30 years when those 'big teams' were both there?
The old firm dominated, a few clubs tried to overspend their way to some form of success, the odd hiccup to upset the form books, no National team achievements and as you point out here we are now where European runs/sponsorship/tv money all virtually non existent!
So we know what doesn't work & only a fool would suggest we look for exactly the same thing again expecting a different result!
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
So are you suggesting that the reason the league is how it is now is because of the OF clubs ? Are you suggesting it didn't work because other teams didn't win
All leagues have top clubs dominating them - that's a fact of life in football I'm afraid , but those top teams generate the interest and the money
Haven't both Celtic and Rangers recently both got to European finals ( last ten years )
The SPL in the past decade had some quality players playing in it and the clubs in Europe provided some good results -
It may not be perfect and it may not suit the smaller clubs but it's needed to have big clubs - without them the league is closer to Sunday League than a top league in Europe.
It appears to me that basically people would like them gone so that other teams can win - that's great for those other teams. Not so great for the standard
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
I was responding to your point that "Fans may not like the OF clubs but the clubs need them if they want the league to improve" and i cant see that league improvement for anyone other than the sole beneficiary that is the Old firm
I've already said I'd prefer them there but as part of the league and not the purpose of the league (and I've no idea how to mange that change)
Who knows what lies ahead but 99 titles from 118 years is hardly the league improvement you suggest and we're never likely to see TV money make any meaningful difference when its sitting at 16m a year! How much extra do you think those four old firm games will add to the pot?
The success or even the survival of Scottish football does not lie in the fate of the Old firm
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Oh Scottish football will survive just as all football survives - what standard it will be is the question
But you can show me a league that doesn't have a couple of clubs dominating the titles ?
It appears that people want an unrealistic fantasy league where any team can win it - that doesn't happen and has never happened in any league in European football. So they would prefer the OF out so they can have a chance of winning
That would be like asking Spain to get rid of Madrid and Barcelona or Holland - Ajax and PSV plus many more countries have the same situation.
It goes deeper than that but we'll not even go there.
And by the way I fully understand it.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Just on this Phil. The rest of Scottish football has never really wanted the OF gone (as much as we despised their 'traditions' and how these 'traditions' cast Scottish football in a specific light). Rather it is the OF who have for years now wanted to leave Scottish football - abandoning us to our fate as it were. And so we said - OK - bu**er off then and see how you get on - and we'll sort ourselves out.
So with that in mind have a think about how we - the rest - feel about the OF and then you might understand better why we think as we do about your exhortations on how important the OF are to Scottish football.
C
c1973
Guest
Don't know about them but Rangers have a chance.
I've always felt this league would be a tricky one, more so with Jambos and Hivs in the mix now. I thought Falkirk or Dundee would be as tough as it could have got a couple of years back.
C
c1973
Guest
Utopian scenario: Rangers and Celtic out of Scottish football.
Result;
At best, less TV & sponsorship deals, at worst none.
Very doubtful fans will flock back, they've been deserting the game for years now.
Cash strapped clubs struggle to invest in youth development (lots of SPFL teams budgets cut here already).
Less talent coming through, poorer quality football and poorer national side.
The next best teams start dominating, let's say Motherwell and ICT for arguments sake.
How long before fans of the diddy teams (those out with Well and ICT) become disillusioned?
Now, there is just as much chance of that scenario happening as the alternative where every team gets a wee shot at winning. Rangers and (to a lesser extent) Celtic dominated for over 100 years for one reason and one reason alone. They were consistently better than every other competitor! Even when the diddy teams were well supported btw.
Let's face it, if you're really honest the fans of the diddy teams are jealous of the success these two behemoths have enjoyed over the years. They can't really compete with them, so they all want shot of them.
I agree, a 2 horse race ain't much fun but it's better than a 1 horse race and after all the rest could still compete for the remaining Euro spot.
N.B.
We're coming tae get yees, we're coming tae get yees...........:whoo:
Result;
At best, less TV & sponsorship deals, at worst none.
Very doubtful fans will flock back, they've been deserting the game for years now.
Cash strapped clubs struggle to invest in youth development (lots of SPFL teams budgets cut here already).
Less talent coming through, poorer quality football and poorer national side.
The next best teams start dominating, let's say Motherwell and ICT for arguments sake.
How long before fans of the diddy teams (those out with Well and ICT) become disillusioned?
Now, there is just as much chance of that scenario happening as the alternative where every team gets a wee shot at winning. Rangers and (to a lesser extent) Celtic dominated for over 100 years for one reason and one reason alone. They were consistently better than every other competitor! Even when the diddy teams were well supported btw.
Let's face it, if you're really honest the fans of the diddy teams are jealous of the success these two behemoths have enjoyed over the years. They can't really compete with them, so they all want shot of them.
I agree, a 2 horse race ain't much fun but it's better than a 1 horse race and after all the rest could still compete for the remaining Euro spot.
N.B.
We're coming tae get yees, we're coming tae get yees...........:whoo:
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Well said sir.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Very good point
Whether an Atlantic League, European Super League or English League, the Old firm have been threatening to leave Scottish football for years now (& this is their own chief execs and managers saying this) Walter Smith even said the SPL could die if they stay!
Why on earth would we make the old firm custodians of Scottish football if they are prepared to scarper at the first opportunity?
Why build a business model and tv sponsorship deals around teams who don’t want to be there (because as shown there will be clauses that the TV company can pull the lot if the Old firm aren't part of the package)
Where does that leave all the other clubs who’ve been budgeting and spending on players, stadia etc based on one financial model only to have it pulled from them
Phil of course every league has its dominant teams but whether they harbor it internally, none of these have been as public in attempting to engineer a move away from the national league structure (to the point where the SPL had to tell the Old firm to zip it due to harming the commercial value of the SPL)
As I said having 'big teams' is fine, even dominating teams but jeez they have to want to be there!
ManinBlack
Tour Winner
I've just come back to 9 handicap after 32 years at 11 or 12. I'm more worried about me going straight back up!
