NPR for GUR

[woody69]

If my ball lands within an area marked as GUR that has also been roped off, do the rope / stakes count as part of the GUR and therefore relief is taken ensuring they do not interfere with his next stroke, or are they simply moveable obstructions that can be taken down so as they do not interfere with the next stroke?

I ask because we had an area marked as GUR with stakes and rope. If the person took down the rope they could drop and play. If they weren't able to do that, the NPR put them in a bush

 

[rulie]

If my ball lands within an area marked as GUR that has also been roped off, do the rope / stakes count as part of the GUR and therefore relief is taken ensuring they do not interfere with his next stroke, or are they simply moveable obstructions that can be taken down so as they do not interfere with the next stroke?

I ask because we had an area marked as GUR with stakes and rope. If the person took down the rope they could drop and play. If they weren't able to do that, the NPR put them in a bush

Movable obstructions, imo. And my opinion is not based on where the nearest point of relief might be.

 

[Foxholer]

Movable obstructions, imo. And my opinion is not based on where the nearest point of relief might be.

I agree! Presuming that they are actually movable, the fact that some movable obstructions happen to also delimit GUR is beside the point. Remember that it's 1 rule/condition at a time! So the movable obstruction rule first, then check whether the GUR creates another.

It would be the other way round (GUR first, then MO) if ball was actually IN the GUR

 

[woody69]

I agree! Presuming that they are actually movable, the fact that some movable obstructions happen to also delimit GUR is beside the point. Remember that it's 1 rule/condition at a time! So the movable obstruction rule first, then check whether the GUR creates another.

It would be the other way round (GUR first, then MO) if ball was actually IN the GUR

The ball was in GUR. If he can remove the posts that delimit the GUR then he can drop in a spot that doesn't have him hitting the posts / rope with his stroke. If they can't be moved and as such are still the GUR then to take full relief he would need to go a few feet back, which just so happens to be in a bush, so as to avoid hitting the post/ropes

 

[chrisd]

If my ball lands within an area marked as GUR that has also been roped off, do the rope / stakes count as part of the GUR and therefore relief is taken ensuring they do not interfere with his next stroke, or are they simply moveable obstructions that can be taken down so as they do not interfere with the next stroke?

I ask because we had an area marked as GUR with stakes and rope. If the person took down the rope they could drop and play. If they weren't able to do that, the NPR put them in a bush

They could play from the GUR if he could/wanted to, if it isn't a compulsory local rule.

 

[woody69]

They could play from the GUR if he could/wanted to, if it isn't a compulsory local rule.

Yep, I know that. It was a "must be taken" though.

 

[Colin L]

You go by the way GUR is defined in your LRs. If by white lines, the fence is irrelevant to defining the GUR.

By the way, you can move a movable obstruction any time. No need to make two stages.

 

[woody69]

You go by the way GUR is defined in your LRs. If by white lines, the fence is irrelevant to defining the GUR.

By the way, you can move a movable obstruction any time. No need to make two stages.

So what if it is defined by the stakes and rope in the LR e.g.

The turf to the right of the 14th hole defined by blue stakes and rope is ground under repair from which play is prohibited. If a player’s ball lies in this area, or if this area interferes with the player’s stance or the area of his intended swing, the player must take relief under Rule 25-1.

 

[woody69]

Hmm just read this bit

It would be inequitable to make a player take relief from an area that would normally be reasonable for play when the player’s nearest point of relief is in bushes, trees or some other unplayable position.

So it seems it would be inequitable if they couldn't remove the rope/stakes, but the LR suggests it's part of GUR.

 

[Colin L]

Find the NPR, drop and remove the rope/stake if need be.

 

[Foxholer]

...
By the way, you can move a movable obstruction any time. No need to make two stages.

Good point! But the MOs still establish the starting point for where relief is (begun to be) taken from, so need to be left in until that position is at least marked.

And remember that MOs do actually need to be movable! I've encountered some stakes that couldn't be moved (concreted in?) even though they looked the same as some that were! Same actually applies to sponsor's signs in Pro tournaments!

 

[rulefan]

You may take relief from the MO or GUR in any sequence. Before doing anything check the likely outcomes.

 

[Colin L]

Good point! But the MOs still establish the starting point for where relief is (begun to be) taken from, so need to be left in until that position is at least marked.

And remember that MOs do actually need to be movable! I've encountered some stakes that couldn't be moved (concreted in?) even though they looked the same as some that were! Same actually applies to sponsor's signs in Pro tournaments!

In which case they weren’t movable obstructions in the first place. I’m not sure of your point.

 

[Foxholer]

In which case they weren’t movable obstructions in the first place. I’m not sure of your point.

Yes indeed. Only point was that they do have to be movable! These ones looked no different from others, but for some reason seemed to have been made int non-movable ones - so became immovable obstructions. Whether that was a deliberate policy or just to stop them from being moved and not replaced or not was never really established! They were actually Yellow stakes depicting a Water Hazard that were on a knob. Other Yellow stakes nearby were movable, so something of a mystery - that never got solved.

 

[mefromhere]

If they're in the way enough to make contact with the club on the swing then that isn't the NPR anyway because you aren't allowed to cross or touch the line of GUR with your swing. This line extends upwards.

 

[Colin L]

I ask because we had an area marked as GUR with stakes and rope. If the person took down the rope they could drop and play. If they weren't able to do that, the NPR put them in a bush

Coming back to your original question, I’m not sure if you were thinking there would be one NPR for relief from the GUR if the stakes and rope were removed and another if they weren’t? The NPR is the nearest point giving complete relief from the GUR: that could be right beside a stake; it could be where your backswing would be impeded by a stake; but the stakes and ropes have no part to play in determining the NPR. There is only one.

 

[rulie]

If they're in the way enough to make contact with the club on the swing then that isn't the NPR anyway because you aren't allowed to cross or touch the line of GUR with your swing. This line extends upwards.

This is incorrect. The margin of GUR extends downwards but not upwards (see definition).

 

[Colin L]

If they're in the way enough to make contact with the club on the swing then that isn't the NPR anyway because you aren't allowed to cross or touch the line of GUR with your swing. This line extends upwards.

That is incorrect. The margin of GUR extends vertically downwards but not upwards. The stakes are in the GUR but can be removed, or if immovable, relief can be taken from interference under Rule 24-2b

Note: I should have looked further down the thread to rulie’s posting before charging in.