Next month's debate

[golfcitydweller]

well i`ve read all the above posts and a few are saying grow the rough on the left ,well they have and i can tell u - it`s very thick and in a medal one of my playin partners lost a ball -and `we ` locals have heard that there not cutting it till next july !! and as far as we know if the wind blows from the north- east -they`ll put them up onto the old tee ..the hole doesn`t play as it use to and most of the players are hittin in short irons and the green is a lot more receptive than it was a few years ago due to the wetter summers and also the grooves on there wedges! although they`re due to be altered .. the new tee will be level with the front of the 16th green .. it`ll be interesting to see the averages for the hole during the open .cheers

 

[Herbie]

I have thought about this for a while and I dont see what will be achieved by the lengthening of the hole?

As it stands, it is still a testing hole for the best of players, because of its layout the approach shot is always going to be difficult and many pro's dont go for the pin that often, they tend to play short and have it run onto the green or put it to the back of the green, very few pin chasers on this hole IMO, some are quite happy to lay up and chip on. So what difference will the length make? Surely you will just see a lot more of the things I have mentioned with only a very few finding themselves at the exact yardage for a crisp shot at the pin.

I dont think the length will improve or impress on this hole, because what makes it difficult is the green design and the hazards surrounding as well as the weather conditions. The top players will have little extra to deal with (if anything) by having a few extra yards to play.

I think that when its all done and dusted, and the novelty factor wears off it wont make the difference all the effort and cost might hope for.

Making the fairway narrower and letting the rough grow might add some fun, but then again the pro's dont have the lost ball factor to worry about as someone always sees it and in any case everything is nicely trimmed for such comps, its the regulars that have to deal with overgrowing rough

 

[Imurg]

The reason they want to do it is to bring the road and the wall back into play. Back in the day, theywere hitting 3 irons into the green and often flying through and ending up on the road or up against the wall (Watson?). THese days they're hitting 7's and 8's in - little chance of overshooting. When was the last time anyone ended up on the road or against the wall?
Lengthen it so they have to hit 4's and 3's in. Then it'll sort the men from the boys again.

 

[matt01]

i beleave they should leave it well alone,the hole is hard as it is add a small amount off wind and it becomes harder again and with pin placement you can break some hearts,not broken don`t try and fix it

 

[didsbury_duffer]

The 17th does not need changing, as most pro's struggle to make par already. There must be other easier holes at St. Andrews that need to be tightened up, whether it be length, rough, bunkering or whatever.

 

[rgs]

Lengtening any hole is the lazy designers option. No imagination just add length. However the road hole is different--i remember, in the 70's and 80's seeing players using long irons to get home. Players could not just aim at the flag and let fly, they needed to use their shot making skills and imagination. It was a joy to see players playing long running chip and runs trying to run the ball up the front of the green to avoid the run off into the road hole bunker.
If the changes bring this type of shot making back i'm in favour. Hopefully the changes will be "Road Tested" before they are put into play at the Open.

 

[Junior]

I think it needs to be lengthened , thinking back to the Dunhill, I cant remember any pro being in the road hole bunker, sure some were way left and way right, but going in with a longer iron will bring the bunker and the road back into play.

 

[roccokj]

I liked the sound of it at first but after seeing it go up to 490yards I thought that was pretty ridiculous. I think leave it as it was maybe even just tighten the fairway.

 

[RGDave]

Morning all,

I am just putting together the debate page for the January issue of GM. The R&A are planning to lengthen the Road Hole to 490 yards for the Open Championship. Do you think this is a good or bad idea? What affect do you think it will have on the tournament?

The plan will be to print the responses of a select few so please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

I think lengthening the road hole is a rather drastic measure. The point of this hole (and forgive me if I'm not remembering it properly) is that there is a massive bunker short of the green and O.O.B. off the back. It requires a strong nerve and precise yardage (taking into account the wind) to take on the pin. I'd rather see some fairway bunkers or more punishing rough at driving distance to add more spice to the strategy on the hole. If the players start taking more club to the green, that'll mean more balls O.O.B. Coming up this hole on the last day (for the leader) should offer some risk/reward but with a longer 2nd shot, players will either play right (if wise) or risk losing the lot on one shot. Exciting? maybe, but a bit o.t.t.

 

[freddielong]

I think the hole was looseing its teeth so something had to be done - the only long term solution is to role back the equipment, but as there are to many people making money out of it so that will not happen. This will continue to happen until all of our iconic courses run out of space, and are turned into pitch and putt courses.

 

[Screwback]

I think Slightly lengthening the hole would be good but not to the length they are talking about. As others have said perhaps tightening the fairway and growing the rough would be better!

 

[freddielong]

I don't think the hole will play its new full lengh everyday, I would imagine it will be moved to suit the conditions. You may find that it actually plays the same as now they will just have the option.

 

[grumpyjock]

If I remember this one correctly it has the Hotel on the right and the 2nd fairway on the left, so how do they expect the new back tee (its going to be in the practice area) to make any difference to the approach.
the only way to restrict the long hitters is to increase the rough and decrease the landing area a new bunker just short of the corner alongside the hotel wall would be an idea.
Or maybe inbetween the 17 and 2nd fairways just short of the rough between them.
Do not increase the length just for the heck of it the course can be tough as it is, just install a wind machine behind the green and make them play a long iron. For a laugh.

 

[USER1999]

Now we are talking. Where can we site the windmill?

 

[toonarmy]

As someone said, putting a new tee 50yds back is the laziest and least effective method of toughening up a hole. As far as I can see, all the R&A are doing here is validating equipment manufacturers' (ball makers especially) quest for distance and authorising the slow demise of art and grace in the game.

I don't see the logic in demanding a change to grooves to try and counter the boom-and-boshers and in the next breath adding yards to one of the most famous holes in golf to make it tough again. Control the distance of the equipment, not the courses. They've put limits on head size, shaft length etc. so just put limits on the balls to stop them going so far!

If changing the equipment and leaving courses as they are/used to be means we have a few less JB Holmes' and a few more Seves, then I think we'd all we appreciate that a whole lot more than 'pro' tees.

 

[Region3]

Build another 2 storeys on the hotel

 

[golfcitydweller]

grow the rough - tighten the fairway - stick in a bunker on the right -.. where du stop at !!! remember 99 % of play on the `old` is amateur golfers ..we have to play comps on it and most of us locals will take 5 on the tee and a par is a bonus ..we can`t all hit 300plus ..one forumer said some pro`s lay-up and chip along the green ..how many pro`s lay-up with a 7/8 iron in there hands ..very few ..the old is probably the weakest on the open rota and the only way they can make it tougher is to lengthen the course ,unfortunate - but that`s the way all courses are going these days..

 

[ClarkeCAGC]

What's the problem with letting the pro's shoot the lights out it makes for more exciting golf look at The masters this year to see this the two previous years were dull and boring with players struggling for pars contrastingly this years biridie fest provided one of the most exciting masters Sundays in he last decade.

 

[Fyldewhite]

About time too. The old course has very few teeth if the wind doesn't blow. Yes fairways can be narrowed and more bunkers added but doesn't this constitute changing a hole from the original test too?
The difficulty of the 17th is holding the green with a longer iron or playing from the rough with little spin or control to a green surrounded by danger. This change restores that challenge which is closer to the original design and should be welcomed.

 

[vig]

How about raising the height of the corner of the hotel?
Never played it so pure guesswork but wouldn't that add distance as a more lofted club would be required