New Rules 2019 - Out of Bounds

[woofers]

So the Alternative to Stroke and Distance will only be applicable to general play and must not be used in a qualifier...
Great, that's not going to confuse anyone is it....
There will be people who play this LR in their knockabouts and forget during a Medal....
Let's make the rules even more complicated....

Umm, if you bother to read the document it does say "Where the Local Rule is in use for general play, the club must ensure they remind players it is not allowed when scores are to be submitted for handicap adjustment (Qualifying Competitions and Supplementary Scores)." (my bold).

 

[Imurg]

Umm, if you bother to read the document it does say "Where the Local Rule is in use for general play, the club must ensure they remind players it is not allowed when scores are to be submitted for handicap adjustment (Qualifying Competitions and Supplementary Scores)." (my bold).

I bothered - thanks.
You can remind people until you're blue in the face, people are going to get this wrong.
People don't know rules that have been in the book for years, clubs try to tell them but they still don't know these rules...
Clubs remind players all the time about repairing pitchmarks and avoiding slow play....seems they're doing a good job getting that one across.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Having a rule, local or otherwise that you use on one day during a rollup but don't use the next day in a Medal is asking for trouble.
It just is....
And if the idea of the LR is to help speed up play by doing away with the return to the tee scenario, then it's not going to happen in qualifiers, which are often the slowest rounds...

Quite shocked on reading the document and agree with your comments.

And anyway I can play whatever rules I want in a social game already(non Q) and quite often do the drop for lost balls. I thought this rule was going to be allowed in comps, but clearly not

 

[User 99]

Your playing partners, do they not keep abreast of golfing matters at all ? Read magazines for example ?
What about your club ? Have they made an effort to educate the membership ?
The new Players Edition of the Rules of Golf has been freely available for some weeks now and every club I visit has had copies of these in the entrance hall or pro shop.

Two of them no, don't keep abreast of anything golfing, sure they've heard of Tiger Woods and they know Europe won the Ryder Cup but that's about it, the other however, lives and breathes the game, watches everything on TV but clearly not interested about the new rules.

As for the club, yes there are a few players edition rules books about but in general, there has been no correspondence from them.

I agree as was stated earlier, it's up to the individual to learn the new rules, but what happens when a group of four go out and know nowt of the new rules, then what ? They aren't going to get DQ'd are they, who would be able to know ??

 

[woofers]

I thought repairing pitch marks and avoiding slow play was good etiquette, not a specific rules issue...?
People can do whatever they like in their knockabouts as far as I'm concerned.
Your point would be better made by comparing how a club and players will deal with this, (if they bring in such a local rule), in matchplay competitions.

 

[User 99]

I would have to wonder why any club would bring this LR in if it's not relevant in qualifiers.

 

[woofers]

I would have to wonder why any club would bring this LR in if it's not relevant in qualifiers.

Agreed. It seems that it's the desire to improve the pace of play which is driving a number of rules changes.

 

[Colin L]

I would have to wonder why any club would bring this LR in if it's not relevant in qualifiers.

Why not? If you had decided before CONGU interfered that you would adopt the LR for all golf in your club, would it not be more obvious to carry on with what you had decided except for being forced to exclude qualifiers? In other words, hold on to as much of what you wanted as you can.

I thought carefully about the possiblity of confusion but one rule for qualifiers and an additional one for every other golf didn't seem to be too much of a challenge to the intellect or the memory. I'm certainly not of a mind to allow those who can't be bothered about knowing the rules to prevent others from benefitting.

 

[User 99]

There can't be many folk who would walk back to the tee in a social game surely.

Why not? If you had decided before CONGU interfered that you would adopt the LR for all golf in your club, would it not be more obvious to carry on with what you had decided except for being forced to exclude qualifiers? In other words, hold on to as much of what you wanted as you can.

Why not ? What is the likelyhood of social golfers going back to reload prior to any new rules being on the horizon ? I'd reckon very few, so implementing the new LR would likely change nothing to them and most likely just cause confusion to those one day playing a qualifier and the next day not, just seems pointless introducing it.

 

[Imurg]

I thought repairing pitch marks and avoiding slow play was good etiquette, not a specific rules issue...?
People can do whatever they like in their knockabouts as far as I'm concerned.
Your point would be better made by comparing how a club and players will deal with this, (if they bring in such a local rule), in matchplay competitions.

It's an example of clubs trying to get messages across to players....it doesn't work well with pitchmarks and slow play, why should it suddenly work with rule changes..?

 

[Colin L]

There can't be many folk who would walk back to the tee in a social game surely.


Why not ? What is the likelyhood of social golfers going back to reload prior to any new rules being on the horizon ? I'd reckon very few, so implementing the new LR would likely change nothing to them and most likely just cause confusion to those one day playing a qualifier and the next day not, just seems pointless introducing it.

We decided there was value in adopting the LR for all golf at the club. Being denied its use in qualifiers does not in any way change its value in all the other forms of golf being played.

 

[jim8flog]

Your playing partners, do they not keep abreast of golfing matters at all ? Read magazines for example ?
What about your club ? Have they made an effort to educate the membership ?
The new Players Edition of the Rules of Golf has been freely available for some weeks now and every club I visit has had copies of these in the entrance hall or pro shop.

One of the problems is that the advice coming out from our Local Authority is that clubs should not start educating members too early in case it cause confusion and players start playing to the new rules in 2018.

Our club has not started to do anything on this basis because the Manager wants to follow this advice.

With over 50 changes I wonder just how many will learn the all the new rules by January 1st.

 

[jim8flog]

There are people who have been playing for years who get rulings wrong or don't even know rules..
Having a rule, local or otherwise that you use on one day during a rollup but don't use the next day in a Medal is asking for trouble.

...

It is for this very reason we decided not to have the LR.

We have had experience of having a rule for General play only* and loads of players still kept using it in competition play.

*We removed the rule in 2012 but we still have players using it today.

 

[clubchamp98]

All you have to do is look in the “ made up rules thread a while ago”
This will show you the knowledge level of your “average golfer”.

If this is no good for the pros then it’s no good for us imo.

 

[Colin L]

What was meant by general play, and out of curiosity what was the LR? In the current situation, the distinction will be between qualifiers (medal and stableford) and every other kind of competition plus non-competition (although often fiercely competitive) social play.

The more I've got into it, the more I realise the extent of the changes. I started publicising the changes in October i.e just after the last of our qualifiers of the season. Those clubs which cary qualifiers on through the winter are in a different position. Consider, though, those parts of the world where the changeover will be in mid-season.

 

[rulie]

What was meant by general play, and out of curiosity what was the LR? In the current situation, the distinction will be between qualifiers (medal and stableford) and every other kind of competition plus non-competition (although often fiercely competitive) social play.

The more I've got into it, the more I realise the extent of the changes. I started publicising the changes in October i.e just after the last of our qualifiers of the season. Those clubs which cary qualifiers on through the winter are in a different position. Consider, though, those parts of the world where the changeover will be in mid-season.

Fortunately, some of us have the winter (starting about now and to Feb-March) to deal with the education! Regards.

 

[Old Skier]

There are people who have been playing for years who get rulings wrong or don't even know rules..
Having a rule, local or otherwise that you use on one day during a rollup but don't use the next day in a Medal is asking for trouble.
It just is....
And if the idea of the LR is to help speed up play by doing away with the return to the tee scenario, then it's not going to happen in qualifiers, which are often the slowest rounds...

The one rule that really helps speed up play and a small group of people at CONGU decide it's not worthy of consideration. Shame the R&A didn't just make it a proper rule and not a LR option.

 

[Old Skier]

What was meant by general play, and out of curiosity what was the LR? In the current situation, the distinction will be between qualifiers (medal and stableford) and every other kind of competition plus non-competition (although often fiercely competitive) social play.

The more I've got into it, the more I realise the extent of the changes. I started publicising the changes in October i.e just after the last of our qualifiers of the season. Those clubs which cary qualifiers on through the winter are in a different position. Consider, though, those parts of the world where the changeover will be in mid-season.

This seems to be in direct conflicts with the unified HC system that comes in during 2020 where players where going to be encouraged to submit more casual golf cards. We all know of players who keep their qualifiers to a minimum for whatever reason. Being able to sort out some of your Society members has now been kicked into touch.

 

[Colin L]

The one rule that really helps speed up play and a small group of people at CONGU decide it's not worthy of consideration. Shame the R&A didn't just make it a proper rule and not a LR option.

A rule would apply to all golf, all the way to the Majors but this provision is explicitly not for elite golf. It either has to be made available through a Local Rule so as to avoid being imposed on elite golf, or in the way DMDs and embedded balls have gone, to be a Rule but with a Local Rule opt-out. Building in choices is a way of maintaining a single (sort of) set of rules for golf at every level.

 

[jim8flog]

What was meant by general play, and out of curiosity what was the LR? In the current situation, the distinction will be between qualifiers (medal and stableford) and every other kind of competition plus non-competition (although often fiercely competitive) social play.

The more I've got into it, the more I realise the extent of the changes. I started publicising the changes in October i.e just after the last of our qualifiers of the season. Those clubs which cary qualifiers on through the winter are in a different position. Consider, though, those parts of the world where the changeover will be in mid-season.

We used to allow putting with the flag in in winter in non competition play only. ( I know the rules state that it is not allowable as a local rule and it was only when I became responsible for Local Rules that I managed to get it removed)