Kellfire
Blackballed
No no, you’re proof that people believe the bad press.
New Labour Leader
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Here you go again hanging labels on people who have a different opinion. The fact I never voted Labour is nothing to do with the way you insult people who hold a different opinion; surely this suggests you are the one with the trait of a sociopath. Also it appears you either cannot or are not prepared to justify your view.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
If you're referring to the Guardian that I buy and read or the BBC then I suggest you take off your blinkers and smell the roses. Some of Corbyn's idea were absolutely bonkers and despite what you think, made him unelectable to anyone other than the hard left and Momentum.
If labour choose Long-Bailey, they will be in the same boat. They need fresh thinking and a different course to have any chance against Joris Bohnson next time.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
Not disputing how people reacted to Corbyn this time round, but what I would ask is why did he come so close to TM in 2017 and before people blame TM we should also remember the buffoon only increased the tory vote by 329,767 votes or 1.4%.
So if we believe the media as to the number of Labour voters who switched to tory, then there is a discussion to be had that the buffoon was not as popular with the tory voters as people like to think and for Labour it might be enough to replace Corbyn with a Leader that carries a lot less baggage to win that support back during the next 4 years.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
My take is that his policies in 2017 were not as extreme or un-affordable as in 2019. I don't recall talk before the 2017 election of the vast amount of nationalisation that was policy in 2019. Add to that the seemingly confused/non-committal Brexit position and I can see why Labour did less well this time around.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Against TM, I would say there was a surge of new members for Labour, and TM wasn't as popular because of her Brexit direction. Against JoBo, JC was seriously undone by his Brexit plan and most if not all of the country were fed up with Brexit regardless of how they voted. I also think some of JC's plans against JoBo were utter nuts, such as free broadband for everyone.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
Agree with both, which again highlights it was more about how the Labour campaign got it wrong than the tories getting it right.
With a decent strong leader and sensible policies I don’t believe it would take much for Labour to expose the government flaws, especially with so much time to do it.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Free broadband for everyone did not play out well in the rural areas, we all knew that free broadband was meant only for the city slickers,
Same as nationalising the railways, that only benefits towns and villages that actually have rail lines.
You would have expected a Socialist party to hit the Tories hard on Universal Credit, foodbanks and wealth inequality but they seemed very quiet on those subjects,
Same as nationalising the railways, that only benefits towns and villages that actually have rail lines.
You would have expected a Socialist party to hit the Tories hard on Universal Credit, foodbanks and wealth inequality but they seemed very quiet on those subjects,
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
That is the issue....sensible policies that the middle class/swinging voter can accept and buy into. just as Blair did. Preaching to the converted never works, nor does having policies that alienate those voters you need to get over the line.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
But again, if we are to believe the media, it was the Working Class/grass roots support up North that Labour lost, not the Middle Class/swing voter.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Maybe lack of trust in Corbyn the Bogeyman, plus Labour just not having a clear and strong enough policy on post-Brexit immigration for the Working Class/grass roots voters up north. I suggest that many of the referendum waverers would have been traditional Labour voters in northern England seats.
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/immigration-one-biggest-issues-wavering-eu-referendum-voters
Wolf
Well-known member
Likely that Corbyn / Labour policies were to far fetched for many to believe they were affordable without hitting the Working Class despite the claims, the ambiguous nature of the party stance on Brexit and lack of ability to engage with them held sway for them to vote elsewhere.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
Agreed, and that’s why I don’t believe it would take too much to regain some ground, Labour were their own worst enemy, they weren’t and aren’t up against a strong leader/party with decent policies.
Obviously, only time will tell, and that’s why it’s so important for them to choose a decent Leader.
Wolf
Well-known member
Im not so sure its going to be as easy as some think for them to regain ground. The leadership debate is probably one if the most key ones its had in its history of the party right now. If they bring someone in of the Corbyn line that believes in what they did this time was right and keep the likee of momentum near the fore then I don't see a resurrection of them in near future regardless of how weak the Tory leadership could be. If however they break from momentum and get a truly engaging candidate and return their policies to near centre left then without a doubt they certainly will close that gap.
One things for certain this last election has proven people will vite for parties other than the main 2 protagonist and that post brexit engagement with the people on a grass roots level is key more than ever to delivery of political party success at the polling stations in future.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
We’ll have to wait and see what the media decide about the next Leader, unfortunately that’s were the agenda will be set, regardless of all the facts.
As for other parties, some of that will be led by how Brexit goes in the next 3-4yrs and if the idiot farage reinvents himself.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Labour need someone that we can ALL look at; listen to; and not immediately dismiss what we are hearing. If at least some go away thinking - now what he/she said there makes some sense and I get what she/he is on about...that is the start. Because it means that the person speaking is trusted to at least not be spouting utter nonsense - and with some unspoken agenda.
In my thinking Labour will not win 'back' voters (I put back in quotes as not doing so implies some form of historic ownership of a section of the electorate and it is that misguided thinking - or indeed arrogance - that may be at the core of Labour's current problem with the electorate) by revealing themselves as some sort of Messiah for the Working Class - with the electorate undergoing an epiphany. No - Labour has to eat the elephant one bite at a time - and as they take a bite they must slowly chew and digest - and understand what they are eating...as it were - before they take another bite.
But first - get folk hearing what you are saying - and listening to , and thinking about, what you say. And not smiply immediately dismissing what is said out of hand.
In my thinking Labour will not win 'back' voters (I put back in quotes as not doing so implies some form of historic ownership of a section of the electorate and it is that misguided thinking - or indeed arrogance - that may be at the core of Labour's current problem with the electorate) by revealing themselves as some sort of Messiah for the Working Class - with the electorate undergoing an epiphany. No - Labour has to eat the elephant one bite at a time - and as they take a bite they must slowly chew and digest - and understand what they are eating...as it were - before they take another bite.
But first - get folk hearing what you are saying - and listening to , and thinking about, what you say. And not smiply immediately dismissing what is said out of hand.
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Going to suggest that many 'regular' Labour voters wanted something the party had given no indication they were ready/willing to deliver... And, a scattergun selection of promises wasn't going to cover their deficiencies...
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
And what do you think that was...?
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
I believe we all know it was the Bword they wanted...
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I think one big differences between the two elections was that Corbyn had much more public exposure by this election and people didnt like what they were seeing. In essence an old man with extremest views who stumbled over his words; was manipulated into a position he was not suited for and either unable or incapable of expressing clearly what Labours position was on just about anything but especially on Brexit.
