My Study of OBFL versus NBFL

[Deleted Member 1156]

You have convinced me you don't understand how to shape a ball and if you did what you are suggesting then you will hit off target. If you can do it then you don't do what you think you do.

OK, I don't know how to shape a ball. I hit it in the trees all the time. Happy now?

I'll stick to what I'm doing, as a 5 handicapper I must be doing something right. And I haven't actually suggested what I do.

 

[JustOne]

Not always!

Down the line path - face at target - I think this would go to the target.

Only if you also hit with a ZERO ANGLE OF ATTACK... irons are hit on the way down though (7-iron is about -5 degrees I think)... and an 'optimum' drive is hit on the way up... there is no optimun shot that is hit with ZERO degrees angle of attack.

If you hit down on a ball the true path of the face is a few degrees to the right so you'd never hit a straight shot from there, and vice versa for an upward strike.

 

[SocketRocket]

Effects of D-Plane can only be seen using Trackman and the like. I can't really apply or verify this information in real time when I am playing the game.

I can't help my students with this info either unless I purchase this expensive equipment and they agree to partake in geeky experiments that they don't understand anyway.

That's not correct. 'D' Plane is geometry and can be understood without Trackman. I just cant understand why you don't just make an attempt to understand it. You don't have to teach it to students, you just will be better armed with information on the subject. It's not that difficult to understand and many would actually like to understand what goes on when their ball does something they didn't expect.

IMO you do yourself a disservice by taking such a Luddite attitude.

 

[JustOne]

I'll stick to what I'm doing, as a 5 handicapper I must be doing something right. And I haven't actually suggested what I do.

No one is suggesting you should change. We are talking amongst ourselves about the FACTS, it really has no bearing on your game unless you let it. Personally I'd suggest as a decent golfer you should sit up and take notice!

I have many friends off low h/caps that don't know the ballflight laws, I was off 1.4 myself without knowing them..... however I wish I'd known them before I spent all those 1000's of hours on the practice ground trying to get the ball started more to the right by swinging OUT on it..... when all I had to do was open the face

It is however my firm belief that anyone who makes it to Category 1 should take the time to understand the ballflight laws as they are clearly the most talented players and have the most to benefit :thup:... 90% of golfers can't even hit a decent drive!

 

[SocketRocket]

OK, I don't know how to shape a ball. I hit it in the trees all the time. Happy now?

I'll stick to what I'm doing, as a 5 handicapper I must be doing something right. And I haven't actually suggested what I do.

5 handicapper or not you don't listen well. I have said that if you can shape a ball correctly then you cant be doing what you think you are doing. You are in great company though, Jack Nicklaus didnt do what he said he did, Justin Rose, Nick Faldo, etc all didn't do what they said they did.

I think you made it clear enough you do what the old guys said you should do.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

5 handicapper or not you don't listen well. I have said that if you can shape a ball correctly then you cant be doing what you think you are doing. You are in great company though, Jack Nicklaus didnt do what he said he did, Justin Rose, Nick Faldo, etc all didn't do what they said they did.

I think you made it clear enough you do what the old guys said you should do.

OK mate, I'll rely on you to keep me right. What will you charge me for lessons so I can finally sort my game out after 40 years?

 

[SocketRocket]

OK mate, I'll rely on you to keep me right. What will you charge me for lessons so I can finally sort my game out after 40 years?

As I said. You don't listen well. I will repeat again: IF you can shape a ball correctly and you think you are aiming the clubface at the target and swinging the club where you want the ball to start then you are not doing what you think you are. I hope you got that this time!

I have been playing a bit longer than you with a slightly lower handicap and by understanding the reality of ball flight it has made me a better player, a much better player.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

As I said. You don't listen well. I will repeat again: IF you can shape a ball correctly and you think you are aiming the clubface at the target and swinging the club where you want the ball to start then you are not doing what you think you are. I hope you got that this time!

I have been playing a bit longer than you with a slightly lower handicap and by understanding the reality of ball flight it has made me a better player, a much better player.

It's got nothing to do with my listening ability and a lot more to do with facts. I find it bizarre that you are implying that some of the greatest golfers that have ever lived don't understand what they are doing. What planet are you on?

 

[SocketRocket]

It's got nothing to do with my listening ability and a lot more to do with facts. I find it bizarre that you are implying that some of the greatest golfers that have ever lived don't understand what they are doing. What planet are you on?

Earth actually. Yes, that's exactly what I am saying, they did something different to what they thought they did. They used a 'feel' for the shot but thats not what they had been told to do.

I guess you have heard of Jim McLean, he has coached some of the best in the world. Take a look at this video where he actually says he did it wrong for 30 years on ball flight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoPyadnDm_E

I look forward to your comments.

 

[Region3]

It's got nothing to do with my listening ability and a lot more to do with facts. I find it bizarre that you are implying that some of the greatest golfers that have ever lived don't understand what they are doing. What planet are you on?

Talking of facts, did you watch the video that SocketRocket posted earlier showing the first inches of flight after impact?

If you didn't, it shows that the ball initially takes (near as dammit) the same path as the angle the club face is pointed at.

If Donald, Rose, Faldo, Nicklaus and whoever else REALLY has the face pointing at the target at impact, and is swinging to the right of that direction, where is the ball going to end up?

So which is the fact?

A high speed camera recording showing the ball and club, or some of the best golfers of their time describing what they think they are doing.

No-one is disputing the fact that they could play whatever shot they wanted, just that the club wasn't where they thought it was at impact.

I don't even think anyone is suggesting that you (or anyone else who can shape the ball at will) should change what they're doing. Just that people trying to learn the skill should be taught in line with what technology has shown.

 

[richart]

I learnt to fade and draw the ball from reading one of Johnny Millers books back in the 70's. Classic OBFL, he could play all the shots, but he didn't realise because there wasn't the same camera technology, that he didn't actually have the face where he thought he did at impact. His swing would adjust to have the face actually aiming to the right (for a draw) or left (for a fade) of the target at impact, despite it being addressed at the target.

I didn't believe James at first, but if nothing else he does know his ball flights.:thup:

 

[JustOne]

I didn't believe James at first, but if nothing else he does know his ball flights.:thup:

I'm flattered Richart.



(what's this 'nothing else' you talk of?)
:rofl:

 

[bobmac]

Good morning. Have I missed anything?

 

[AmandaJR]

Good morning. Have I missed anything?

Not sure. I have blisters from too much tummy rubbing though :mmm:

 

[Whereditgo]

The OP has to be the finest example of trolling I have ever seen!

Each and every time the 'flat earth society' are presented with an example of how the OBFL were (and in some cases still are) taught they steadfastly ignore it and refuse to comment and the thread rumbles on - brilliant! :rofl:

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Question for socketrocket and justone:

I have hit fades and draws for the last 40 years that worked perfectly well.

Are you saying that today I have to change my technique to achieve the same results that I have had for the past 40 years?

A simple yes or no is all that is required.

 

[jdchelsea]

Question for socketrocket and justone:

I have hit fades and draws for the last 40 years that worked perfectly well.

Are you saying that today I have to change my technique to achieve the same results that I have had for the past 40 years?

A simple yes or no is all that is required.

just one said yesterday at 11:12 - "No one is suggesting you should change"

I'm pretty sure they've answered that. The answer is no don't change anything.

 

[Swinger]

Lee Travino used to think he compressed the ball into the ground.

That maybe what it felt like to him and I don't discredit anything he did in the game but what he thought happened didn't, plain and simple.

I will say though that he worked it out on the practise ground over thousands upon thousands of golf balls and didn't have any high speed cameras to show him what actually happens. Not that it matters because he was looking for the feeling that he got when he thought he was compressing the ball into the ground.

I didn't read the whole thread but the first 6 pages or so didn't offer too much that hasn't been said before around here.

I prefer the version of this thread that appeared on The Sand Trap as it got shot down straight away.

 

[JustOne]

Question for socketrocket and justone:

I have hit fades and draws for the last 40 years that worked perfectly well.

Are you saying that today I have to change my technique to achieve the same results that I have had for the past 40 years?

A simple yes or no is all that is required.

No............ you're too old :whoo:

It helped my game after 20yrs playing the 'wrong way'. I was able to take on board what was being said and experiment accordingly. I used to have the face waaaaay too closed to draw the ball properly, it never really started out to the right despite a decade on the practice ground...(hook was my bad shot - and no wonder!) never really thought about opening the face a little as EVERYONE said it should point at the target (which was WRONG).

 

[sev112]

Lee Travino used to think he compressed the ball into the ground.

That maybe what it felt like to him and I don't discredit anything he did in the game but what he thought happened didn't, plain and simple.

I will say though that he worked it out on the practise ground over thousands upon thousands of golf balls and didn't have any high speed cameras to show him what actually happens. Not that it matters because he was looking for the feeling that he got when he thought he was compressing the ball into the ground.

I didn't read the whole thread but the first 6 pages or so didn't offer too much that hasn't been said before around here.

I prefer the version of this thread that appeared on The Sand Trap as it got shot down straight away.

Without wishing to start an argument, i woudl be interested in the background to this, and any video clips up close. From a simplistic point of view, any club (irrespective of loft) with a downwards component of velocity at impact must transfer a downward component of momentum to the ball, so that implies a reaction from the ground, and hence potentially some "compression".

Admitting my ignorance here - not trolling