moors murderer dead

[Deleted member 16999]

I mentioned deterrent as a pre-emptive comment as that is usually raised as a reason behind it. Killings happened when we had hangings, they are happening when we don't. They just happen unfortunately.

In the case of Brady there is clearly no doubt but then at the time the Birmingham bombers and the Guildford Four were also "no doubt" situations. Then the evidence became clear that they were not involved. How do you decide who is really, really guilty and who is just a bit guilty? Plenty of other cases. What if you, a relative, a friend was arrested, tried, found guilty and then hung when they were innocent? How can that be right? By keeping people in jail we leave open the door to those miscarriages so they can be corrected.

The other issue is whether it is right for the state to kill people. I don't believe it is. Keep them in jail, deprive them of their freedom but no matter how awful I don't believe we have the right to kill someone. I totally accept many will not agree with this.

I'm not saying they should be tried, convicted and executed in 24hrs or even the death penalty for all murders, but certain crimes, ie, child killers for one, yes absolutely the death sentence should be an option available to Judges.

Have a look at your post, it's all about the accussed and their rights, what about the victims? Who argues for their rights?

 

[Kellfire]

child killers for one

Never understood the logic that a child killing is worse than an adult killing. A human is a human.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I have no issue with longer sentences, deprivation of freedom is enough. That is what you can offer the victim, the family of the victim. The knowledge that the person who committed the crime will never see the outside world again. Taking a life is about revenge and the state should be above that.

 

[tsped83]

Never understood the logic that a child killing is worse than an adult killing. A human is a human.

If you ever have kids you may rethink that stance.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Never understood the logic that a child killing is worse than an adult killing. A human is a human.

That's your interpretation not mine, I tend to look at children as those we should protect first, nuture and give them a chance of growing into adults.
Any adult targeting a defenceless child doesn't deserve to live, imo.

 

[Hobbit]

I saw the newsflash last night and my immediate thoughts were about the body never found, the impact on the families, their friends, the Police, the court staff and in recent years the nursing staff.

It also took me back to the early 70's when we lived near Chester. One of our near neighbours was Clerk of the Courts. 7 years after that trial I saw him breakdown and weep for what he'd heard. He spoke about the impact on the jury and the court staff, and on the hardened bobbies dealing with it at that time. He spoke of the recording played back to the Court of Lesley Ann Downey begging for her life for over 15 minutes, and its impact on everyone in the Court apart from the accused.

However much it affects you, and it would have been horrendous for those involved at the time, just seeing a tough Clerk of the Courts crumble in front of me was shocking! I still shudder when I drive over Saddleworth.

Bring back hanging? Not for me. I prefer to see life in jail with no TV/books etc. I want them to be able to reflect every day on the life they've taken and on what it means to lose their liberty. As for a good dose of scopolamine to get the truth out of them, crack on!

Finally, for me, I like Greater Manchester's Police line; their thoughts go out to the families but they don't want to give air time to that animal.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I have no issue with longer sentences, deprivation of freedom is enough. That is what you can offer the victim, the family of the victim. The knowledge that the person who committed the crime will never see the outside world again. Taking a life is about revenge and the state should be above that.

What about these murderers that inspire others and have cult followings.
It's not about revenge for me, its about justice for the victims.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

What about these murderers that inspire others and have cult followings.
It's not about revenge for me, its about justice for the victims.

The issue there is not to allow them the oxygen of publicity. Don't allow anything about them to come out from the prison. I can't really think of any that fit that bill in this country. Is that not more of a US thing?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The issue there is not to allow them the oxygen of publicity. Don't allow anything about them to come out from the prison. I can't really think of any that fit that bill in this country. Is that not more of a US thing?

Until they reach a level of punishment that fits the bill, I'd still advocate the death penalty, even as much as I respect Hobbits, yours and Kellfires point of view, I can't see how feeding, clothing, keeping warm and dry makes these people reflect on what they've done, they become nothing but a drain on society.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Don't think anyone suggested using it as a deterrent, but were not talking about one innocent life, they tortured defenceless kids, taped themselves doing it and took pleasure from it, call me a savage, inhumane, anything you like, there is nothing I would of stopped at to make them suffer, they never gave the rights of their victims and the victims families any consideration so therefore they lost the right to theirs imo.

Why is it when hanging etc is mentioned does deterrent or miscarriages of justice wheeled out as a reason against it, we never get an alternative answer to what we should do, these things are still happening and innocent children are being killed.

I imagine the level of mental illness in the people that perpetrate these crimes means that they will not follow the logical thought process that most of us do in that if we do that, we may end up dead. If you want a quick and easy solution I expect there is not one to prevent these things happening. And I agree with others in that killing someone seems more of an act of revenge than justice. If you want a long term strategy then I imagine targeting mental illness, better flagging up of people with the potential to commit such terrible crimes etc etc. But I am not sure there will ever be enough money to do that to such an extent as these crimes will be eradicated.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

they become nothing but a drain on society.

That does stick in the throat and I have no answer to that. Unless of course we build a wall around the Isle of Wight, aka Escape to New York, and just leave all prisoners to fend for themselves.

 

[Kellfire]

That's your interpretation not mine, I tend to look at children as those we should protect first, nuture and give them a chance of growing into adults.
Any adult targeting a defenceless child doesn't deserve to live, imo.

The term defenceless is vague. I'm a fully grown, healthy adult. But if a 16 stone rugby player attacked me I'd be as defenceless against him as a child is to an adult.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The term defenceless is vague. I'm a fully grown, healthy adult. But if a 16 stone rugby player attacked me I'd be as defenceless against him as a child is to an adult.

Seriously? We'd all be defenceless at the point of a gun, but still a huge diference between a child trying to defend themselves and an adult.

 

[oxymoron]

I saw the newsflash last night and my immediate thoughts were about the body never found, the impact on the families, their friends, the Police, the court staff and in recent years the nursing staff.

It also took me back to the early 70's when we lived near Chester. One of our near neighbours was Clerk of the Courts. 7 years after that trial I saw him breakdown and weep for what he'd heard. He spoke about the impact on the jury and the court staff, and on the hardened bobbies dealing with it at that time. He spoke of the recording played back to the Court of Lesley Ann Downey begging for her life for over 15 minutes, and its impact on everyone in the Court apart from the accused.

However much it affects you, and it would have been horrendous for those involved at the time, just seeing a tough Clerk of the Courts crumble in front of me was shocking! I still shudder when I drive over Saddleworth.

Bring back hanging? Not for me. I prefer to see life in jail with no TV/books etc. I want them to be able to reflect every day on the life they've taken and on what it means to lose their liberty. As for a good dose of scopolamine to get the truth out of them, crack on!

Finally, for me, I like Greater Manchester's Police line; their thoughts go out to the families but they don't want to give air time to that animal.

If only we could do this (highlighted bit) and make sure the environment actually does punish , i would go further , minimal heating and basic rations not even time out in the daylight . These animals are not worth any privileges from a society that values life if they too do not value the lives of others.
However these scum have rights ,,,,,

 

[Papas1982]

The term defenceless is vague. I'm a fully grown, healthy adult. But if a 16 stone rugby player attacked me I'd be as defenceless against him as a child is to an adult.

A child is always more vulnerable than an adult.

An adult could always get a lucky blow in, or evade trouble as they are more aware of things.

There are no good murders, but people who attack children are the lowest of the low.

It's also the loss too. I don't wish ill on anyone. But i'd happily sacrifice myslef for my children and i have no doubt that the loss of grandchildren would be far more painful than that of my grandparents.

 

[Reemul]

If you ever have kids you may rethink that stance.

I disagree, I would be as devastated if someone murdered my wife as much as my two boys.......

 

[Kellfire]

A child is always more vulnerable than an adult.

Nonsense.

 

[Papas1982]

Nonsense.

Poppycock

Adults with learning issues maybe.

But no able bodied adult needs more protection than that of a child. And any adult who seems to think they are more vulnerable or important than an innocent child needs to take a look in the mirror.

 

[tsped83]

Nonsense.

Eh? How is that nonsense?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Nonsense.

Sorry but children are clearly more vunerable than grown adults - I know my 12 day old daughter is far more vunerable than me because she can't defend herself