rulie
Head Pro
As Colin has pointed out, there are no penalties for "wrong information" other than for strokes taken (including penalty strokes) in match play.
Mis- identified ball
- Thread starter jim8flog
- Start date
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
I had the opposite situation on Saturday. One of my playing partners (in a team game) said I had gone in to a bunker. There was a ball in the bunker with another just outside of it. I looked at the one outside and could not see my markings because of the way it lying in the rough. Said to my mate that's your ball which he promptly hit I got in to the bunker (where I could lift the ball) and found it was his.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Sad to say but that’s just careless. We have all done it!
You can lift a ball to identify it, just don’t clean it.
I just think , if I asked you to identify the ball you are standing next to and you say “yes that’s mine”
Now you might only give it a quick look ,or you can’t be bothered and just confirm it’s yours without even looking.
That’s a bit harsh to be penalised imo.
But rules are rules , and someone can blatantly lie to you and your still penalised.( and out of the hole, unless you re tee)
Swango1980
Well-known member
I wonder if anybody has ever (despicably) taken advantage of this rule.Sad to say but that’s just careless. We have all done it!
You can lift a ball to identify it, just don’t clean it.
I just think , if I asked you to identify the ball you are standing next to and you say “yes that’s mine”
Now you might only give it a quick look ,or you can’t be bothered and just confirm it’s yours without even looking.
That’s a bit harsh to be penalised imo.
But rules are rules , and someone can blatantly lie to you and your still penalised.( and out of the hole, unless you re tee)
Player A and B versus C and D in fourball matchplay. A hits a great drive, B hits a stinker and has to hit 3 off the tee which is dodgy as to whether in trouble or not. Player C hits a stinker and is effectively out of the hole, whereas Player D hits a decent one, but not sure if it is in trouble or not, in the same area as Player B's 3 off the tee.
Player B gets to a ball on edge of fairway, and claims he has found his 3rd off the tee. Player D cannot find his, so ends up with a lost ball. Player A has effectively won the hole (or will go on to win the hole) for A&B. It then turns out that B didn't find his ball at all, it was Player D's all along. Player D (and C) is very upset, as he could have tied or won the hole.
I guess the moral of the story is, never trust Player B
LincolnShep
Head Pro
Well-known fact that Player B is a t055er.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
That’s confusing as player B was the victim in the op.
Player A was the Villan.
you should never profit from a deliberate lie.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Player B wasn't the victim. He was Player A's partner. He knew he was pretty much out of the hole anyway (he would have been had he not found his actual provisional). However, by claiming the found ball was his, he effectively destroyed D's chances of halving or winning the hole for the opposition team. Therefore, Player B's actions went a long way to guaranteeing that his partner won the hole for them.
PS. It could be devious. But, it could also have been a genuine mistake. However, B's failure to correctly identify his ball still ended the other teams chances to get anything out of the hole.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
In the op( original Post) I am sure player B was the Victim of the dastardly deed.
You can’t tar all player Bs with the same brush.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Sorry, I was making up a new scenario to highlight your point about the feeling of unfairness.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Well I would say they are both unfair
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
I actually heard that Player B always ‘finds’ his ball with a clear shot when the other Players reckon it’s miles lost and that he marked in front of the ball but replaced with marker behind. Also he gave advice to another player and wears his shirt untucked !
Player B… He’s a wrong un’ I tells ya
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
You must’ve happened across some right rum characters during your golfing life to think this up. No wonder it matters so much to you where they stand on the tee-box, I'd want eyes on them at all times too!
How about this one then?
Match play, A versus B.
Both play 2nd shots, longish hits.
A's ball goes into bunker, B ball not in bunker, but a bit shorter than A.
B, the cheat, goes into the bunker and stands as if to play the ball which is in the bunker.
This induces A to go to Bs ball, and plays it on to green.
B plays As ball from bunker on to green.
When they go to the balls on the green , B feigns surprise that they have each played the other's ball.
B claims the hole because A played the wrong ball. There is no penalty against B because he played the wrong ball out of a hazard.
Caveat- 2019 rules may have changed this. However, some years ago, I'm assured that such a dastardly cheat was done.
Swango1980
Well-known member
A bunker is not a hazard. It is a bunker. A water hazard is not a hazard. It is a penalty area.
B could have got in the bunker and did what he did. A then plays the shot. B goes to play the shot, looks at the ball and then says "ohhhh, it appears this is not my ball. Were you playing a Pinnacle? Shame, looks like you played my ball
"
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Going back to the order the wrong balls were played. As A plays first - as he has played B's ball does that not immediately trigger A losing the hole? In which case that B subsequently played the wrong ball is irrelevant?
rulefan
Tour Winner
I know it was rhetorical but it does.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
A bunker is not a hazard. It is a bunker. A water hazard is not a hazard. It is a penalty area.
B could have got in the bunker and did what he did. A then plays the shot. B goes to play the shot, looks at the ball and then says "ohhhh, it appears this is not my ball. Were you playing a Pinnacle? Shame, looks like you played my ball
It thought it was clear from the last sentence that I was describing an incident that occurred some time previous to 2019, and not some hypothetical scenario.
Perhaps I should have emphasised that.
I was showing how someone did cheat , and that it was before the rule change of 2019.
See the sentence beginning..."Caveat..
This event of some years ago was under rules when bunkers were defined as hazards, and when there were water hazards.
Rule 30 of 20-6 rules...Definitions.
Bunker
A “bunker’’ is a hazard consisting of a prepared area of ground, often a hollow, from which turf or soil has been removed and replaced with sand or the like
Grass-covered ground bordering or within a bunker, including a stacked turf face (whether grass-covered or earthen), is not part of the bunker A wall or lip of the bunker not covered with grass is part of the bunker The margin of a bunker extends vertically downwards, but not upwards
A ball is in a bunker when it lies in or any part of it touches the bunker"
"Hazards
A hazard is any bunker or water hazard."
I agree that B could have done it your way. I described what actually happened, that's all.
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