Mild form of cheating or otherwise!

[Jamesbrown]

I’m guessing those who oppose set dates for knockout finals are a pain in the backside to arrange matches with. Typical limited flexibility.
Leave the knockout comps for us who are more flexible and not dragging a ball and chain around.

 

[hovis]

"shall we go to the Maldives first week of September?"
"sorry darling, I can't. there's a one in 200 chance I might have to play in a golf competition"
"that's fine, I hope you play well"

SAID NO ONE EVER!!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Respectfully disagree. I enter all our knockouts knowing the finals date but never have any expectation of getting there. If/when I progress I know I've got the date marked and if I get knocked out (usually early) then I can free the day up

Do you have a family and life outside of golf?

Many have stated that the time demands of golf are a problem for family men and women so the form of intransigence displayed here certainly is not going to help with that problem.

Finals Day is as anachronistic as referring to Mr and Madam Captain.

This is 2019 not 1955.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Do you have a family and life outside of golf?

Many have stated that the time demands of golf are a problem for family men and women so the form of intransigence displayed here certainly is not going to help with that problem.

Finals Day is as anachronistic as referring to Mr and Madam Captain.

This is 2019 not 1955.

Of course I do and of course no one uses Mr Captain. I simply think making a diary note for a specific day in advance isn't overly unreasonable especially if you tell spouses up front and that in more cases than not it's academic and you don't reach the finals anyway. I don't see any form of intransigence and surely if people are capable of scheduling work meetings, social nights out etc with other aspects of life then penciling one date into a diary isn't reaching for the moon

 

[hovis]

Of course I do and of course no one uses Mr Captain. I simply think making a diary note for a specific day in advance isn't overly unreasonable especially if you tell spouses up front and that in more cases than not it's academic and you don't reach the finals anyway. I don't see any form of intransigence and surely if people are capable of scheduling work meetings, social nights out etc with other aspects of life then penciling one date into a diary isn't reaching for the moon

i understand what you're saying but is it such a big deal if your opponent calls you and says "hi homer, we're playing together in the finals in a few weeks but a cheap holiday has come up for me and the kids. any chance we can sort out another date? “
are you really going to say No because he knew the date and he should stick to it? would you really see a fellow member miss out on a social event or holiday because you simply don't want to move a date?

 

[Orikoru]

Of course I do and of course no one uses Mr Captain. I simply think making a diary note for a specific day in advance isn't overly unreasonable especially if you tell spouses up front and that in more cases than not it's academic and you don't reach the finals anyway. I don't see any form of intransigence and surely if people are capable of scheduling work meetings, social nights out etc with other aspects of life then penciling one date into a diary isn't reaching for the moon

This is naive at best. Have to agree with Mickie and hovis on this - you keep the date free if you can, but ultimately when it comes down it, family and work would and should always come first. If your boss demands you work the weekend are you really going to tell him to suck a fat one because you have a golf game on? If as hovis says, the chance of a cheap family weekend away is only available that weekend, are you going to say "sorry kids, daddy would rather play golf"? Nah. Not for me.

 

[duncan mackie]

I’m guessing those who oppose set dates for knockout finals are a pain in the backside to arrange matches with. Typical limited flexibility.
Leave the knockout comps for us who are more flexible and not dragging a ball and chain around.

Sorry but there's no logic to that view.

Personally I'm the complete opposite and will generally be able to offer 24 dates in the average month but am totally against fixed finals days for knockout events.

My reasons are based on numerous incidents and issues associated with both competing and organising - and follow the same logic as an aversion to any attempt to set rigid rules around the arrangement of fixtures; ultimately they will either be abused or cause grief in some way.

I think it's an excellent idea to have a nominal date, and players should be expected to do their best to be able play on it. Equally I would expect both players to do their best to arrange an alternative between them if they can't. On the rare situation where a final simply can't get played close to the date everyone should stay chilled and accept the eventual result - it's not the be all and end all.

Consider this scenario - Fixed finals day, player A is called to parents death bed...player B is posted overseas for 6 months the following week. Whilst there will be views ranging from rules are rules and B wins to 6 months is ridiculous so let's give it to A, and the obvious get it sorted in due course....how do any of these sit with finding that C had conceded the semi because he was unable to make the finals day, and didn't think it fair that he knocked out someone who could?

 

[Imurg]

Logically I don't think anyone can disagree with that.
But many Golf clubs are not run logically.
If the Club and it's Members want a Finals Day ten, as with dress codes, that's what they get whether some like it or not.
What would you do if you got invited to an event in 8 months time..?
Simple..you put the date in the diary.
It's done at Golf clubs for club championships, Captains Day etc etc as soon as the dates are published.
You know the score when you join the club, you get told what rules and regulations there are and, if you join, you're agreeing to them.
If the club, and by default that means the members, want all their finals to be played on the same day in September then, barring exceptional circumstances that the committee may or may not seem acceptable, that is what will happen.
The question in this thread is about an ex-Captain lying about the reasons he can't make finals day when finals day has been in the diary all year. Acceptable?
Just for the record I think having a finals day is restrictive and possibly wouldn't enter a comp that had a specific final date many months in advance.
But that doesn't stop the club from doing it.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Logically I don't think anyone can disagree with that.
But many Golf clubs are not run logically.
If the Club and it's Members want a Finals Day ten, as with dress codes, that's what they get whether some like it or not.
What would you do if you got invited to an event in 8 months time..?
Simple..you put the date in the diary.
It's done at Golf clubs for club championships, Captains Day etc etc as soon as the dates are published.
You know the score when you join the club, you get told what rules and regulations there are and, if you join, you're agreeing to them.
If the club, and by default that means the members, want all their finals to be played on the same day in September then, barring exceptional circumstances that the committee may or may not seem acceptable, that is what will happen.
The question in this thread is about an ex-Captain lying about the reasons he can't make finals day when finals day has been in the diary all year. Acceptable?
Just for the record I think having a finals day is restrictive and possibly wouldn't enter a comp that had a specific final date many months in advance.
But that doesn't stop the club from doing it.

All of which is true but that doesn't mean it isn't a tradition that is past its sell by date.

But, hey ho if that's what (some) people want then fine.

 

[Italian outcast]

I solved this problem on Saturday - lost 3 & 2 to a lady

 

[Siolag]

If you want to enter an event, make sure you are available on that day. Doesn’t seem so hard, and if your life outside of golf is more important, then missing the final to go to the Maldives/Cricket/a wedding won’t mean much to you.

 

[backwoodsman]

i understand what you're saying but is it such a big deal if your opponent calls you and says "hi homer, we're playing together in the finals in a few weeks but a cheap holiday has come up for me and the kids. any chance we can sort out another date? “
are you really going to say No because he knew the date and he should stick to it? would you really see a fellow member miss out on a social event or holiday because you simply don't want to move a date?

Not really a realistic scenario... at least not at our place

You don't know if you've made the final till you've won the semi - by which time you're only about 10 days before the actual final. Outside of actual emergencies, by that stage you almost certainly will have already made your social/holiday/family type plans, and will have already made your decision as to where your priorities lie - and will presumably have dropped out of the golf by one means or other.. The longer in advance you know of a clash, then the sooner you drop out.

But, if you get to, & through, a semi-final, and then deliberately make an arrangement that clashes with a date you've well known for a long time , and which is only a few days hence, then sorry, but you're being deliberately selfish.

 

[hovis]

But, if you get to, & through, a semi-final, and then deliberately make an arrangement that clashes with a date you've well known for a long time , and which is only a few days hence, then sorry, but you're being deliberately selfish.

so, its selfish for someone to grab a last minute holiday but it's not selfish to refuse to move a date to accommodate a fellow member or friend? what harm or inconvenience is it causing you?. if it genuinely is a pain in the ass and very difficult to move the date then that's a different question.
that's what this thread is coming down to. how much of a decent bloke are you? I for one would change my plans for many different circumstances if it helps someone out. even if it was on the morning of the comp!!!!! your hitting a bloody white ball around a field for god sake. don't get me wrong, if we couldn't agree a new date then all bets are off. until then I would do what I could to accommodate them. especially if it meant they could go on a holiday

 

[duncan mackie]

so, its selfish for someone to grab a last minute holiday but it's not selfish to refuse to move a date to accommodate a fellow member or friend? what harm or inconvenience is it causing you?. if it genuinely is a pain in the ass and very difficult to move the date then that's a different question.
that's what this thread is coming down to. how much of a decent bloke are you? I for one would change my plans for many different circumstances if it helps someone out. even if it was on the morning of the comp!!!!! your hitting a bloody white ball around a field for god sake. don't get me wrong, if we couldn't agree a new date then all bets are off. until then I would do what I could to accommodate them. especially if it meant they could go on a holiday

I thought this thread was about whether events should be set up such that any considerstions of this nature by the membership were ruled out (rigidly fixed finals day) or not (with or without any optional finals day arrangement)?

As presented in the original post any such options by the members themselves are completely ruled out - the end.