Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
My thanks to you and Foxholer for the explanation.?
Medal Hole Maximums
- Thread starter Crazyface
- Start date
My thanks to you and Foxholer for the explanation.?
Crazyface
Tour Winner
Soooo. Maximum Score competition but nobody told Mr Crazyface? Or Mr Crazyface doesn't read the info he's given? Come on Mr C. Point the finger or fess up.
Well, I sort of remember this being a thing last year and adopted at my place, but I'd never come across it being applied in a comp I was playing in. I just thought you carried on playing out a hole and the computer applied the +5 rule, not actually the person playing the hole, who could randomly pick up the ball when having a bit of a 'mare and say "just write down +5 on my card" without actually completing the hole. Surely this cannot be right.
And our comps are not listed as " Maximum Score Competitions". I've never heard of that. So that's not a thing at our place.
I think I might fire off an e mail to England Golf for clarification.
This will get even messier if we don't get proper advice of this. Back in a bit......
rulefan
Tour Winner
I'm pretty sure the comp has to be /deemed/registered/set up as a Maximum Score comp initially
rosecott
Money List Winner
Rather than a pointless email to England Golf, why not simply communicate with your club's competition administrators - or is that too simple?
I do not know which competition/handicap software your club uses but I have to specify the competition format when setting up competitions - and Maximum Score is one of the options.
The main reason for using the Maximum Score option is that the player can pick up when he obviously cannot better the maximum and that must speed play up.
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Old Skier
Tour Winner
Perhaps you should talk to someone at the club who might actually know about these issues and can officially deal with it instead of emailing EG with a non issue.
wjemather
Well-known member
Unlike HandicapMaster, in ClubV1 there is no specific Maximum Score template for setting up competitions. However, just last week Club Systems restored the "Maximum shots above Par allowed per hole" option on the Medal template (it had been missing since the WHS transition). As a result, Maximum Score competitions are (incorrectly) labelled as Medals by the software - this could cause some confusion for those not up on these things.
Crazyface
Tour Winner
Great response. After a bit of a search I found the CONGU thing about Maximum Score Comps. I've scoured my clubs e mails and cannot find anything about them doing MSC. Although, this reply (above) identifies why they cannot be. This means confusion. I hate confusion and ambiguity. Rules is rules but when there is confusion over what rules we are playing under this is wrong.
Also I don't see this as a non issue. If you're playing in a comp then it should be CRYSTAL CLEAR WHAT THE RULES YOU ARE PLAYING UNDER. This was not the case (for me anyway). And I'm damned if I'm playing anymore comps under this banner at my place. It's utterly ridiculous.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
Yes I agree that the conditions of competition should be clear for all but why is the concept of a "maximum score format" ridiculous?
Swango1980
Well-known member
So, you have spent some time on this forum asking the question. You have trawled through historic e-mails. And, you are prepared to start a communication process through England Golf, which will be utterly pointless as all they could do is tell you:
"Contact your club Committee and ask them whether the format is Maximum Score"
If you had done this right from the start, they would have known the answer and given it to you directly. At that point, the rules should be crystal clear to you. You could then even voice your opinion on that format if you so wish. It might not get you far if most of the club have no issues with it, but at least you'd know where you stand precisely.
Colin L
Tour Winner
[QUOTE="Crazyface, post: 2361316, member: 4124".....I'm damned if I'm playing anymore comps under this banner at my place. It's utterly ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
You never play in stablefords then?
You never play in stablefords then?
Crazyface
Tour Winner
Strange, I thought this place was where you could come to for help and answers. If you aren't the sort of person who is helpful, keep your big nose out and leave it to others to help. The situation arose during a comp and I was querying if this was something that is allowed. What if my comp sec had just told me his understanding of the rules and he was incorrect? Then I'd still have to come back on here to ask the question and judging by the responses so far it seems that even on here we are unclear as to what is / should be happening. So my e mail to EG still stands to obtain COMPLETE CLARIFICATION on the subject.
And just to let anyone know who is reading this. My comp sec has indicated that all comps are conducted under the "maximum score" EXCEPT board comps. So all medal comps are this.
That to me in ridiculous.
And yes I know how stablefords work it's MEDALS that I'm concerned about and will be withdrawing from all of these at my place forthwith.
Colin L
Tour Winner
I see. The basis of your complaint, then, is that your club doesn't actually offer any medal competitions. Medal play is understood, I believe universally, to mean what Rule 3.1a calls "regular stroke play'. That is, where you total the actual number of strokes taken in a round. It's the standard individual stroke play in countless weekly club competitions countrywide just as it is in the Open Championship. Other forms of individual stroke play like stableford, par, bogey and maximum score are described in Rule 21 and all involve some form of capping. They are not medals.
So, to be pedantic. You can't withdraw from your club's medals. There aren't any to withdraw from.
Edit:
What I'm really pointing to is a club decision as to what kind of competitions are held. If you want that changed, it's an internal matter which you would have to follow up as a member by gathering the support of other members of a like mind and seeking that change through club processes. A club's choices as to the nature of its competitions isn't, I"m sure, a matter that England Golf would get involved in.
So, to be pedantic. You can't withdraw from your club's medals. There aren't any to withdraw from.
Edit:
What I'm really pointing to is a club decision as to what kind of competitions are held. If you want that changed, it's an internal matter which you would have to follow up as a member by gathering the support of other members of a like mind and seeking that change through club processes. A club's choices as to the nature of its competitions isn't, I"m sure, a matter that England Golf would get involved in.
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Swango1980
Well-known member
You've come on here and asked why bad holes were set to +5. Fine, and people told you it was likely the Maximum Score format. Your competition sec since also told you it is Maximum Score. So, why on earth go to England Golf? What extra clarification do you need? They will clearly give you the same answer (if they even bother to answer at all). What next? R&A? Government?
D-S
Well-known member
I think the International Court for Arbitration of Sport would be the next logical step.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Foxholer
Blackballed
Re the bold bit...Seems perfectly reasonble to me, if, perhaps, not particularly fully/well communicated.
Re your response...Response seems daft to me! You are cutting your nose off to spite your face!
Crazyface
Tour Winner
Maybe, but would you pay money to enter a medal comp where a 40+ handicapper could pick up on one hole and continue in the comp and have a blinder for the rest of the round and win it? Nutz to that.
Crazyface
Tour Winner
See bold. Just trying to get confirmation that this is a thing that can be applied in proper medal comps.
And further EG have said to go to my comp sec. So, it seems you're right! I'm wrong.....well in trying to get clarification anyway.
Foxholer
Blackballed
So the sole purpose of you entering a Medal competition is to win it? Do you actually enter Stableford comps?
How many comps have you actually won? FWIW, my score in that regard is 3 (2 S'ford, 1 Medl and all many years ago!).
In fact, it's only a small extension of your 'logic' to only have Scratch comps!! And that, to me, is something that is entirely against the concept of Club golf!
Oh and the answer to your question...A resounding 'Yes'!
Swango1980
Well-known member
As I believe others have pointed out, Maximum Score is a legitimate form of golf, just as medal play and Stableford are. Players scores for handicap always use an adjusted gross score, nothing worse than nett double bogey (similar to Stableford). So, if a high handicapper has a blinder on 17 holes, it is still a blinder relative to their handicap, so a good score is warranted. They'd have had an excellent score under Stableford as well.
Never thought too much about Maximum Score, as we do not run them. However, it seems to potentially penalise lower handicappers more than high? For example, imagine a high handicapper gets 12 on a par 5, and has 3 shots. If capped at +5, they get a 10 for the comp. A 10 is effectively nett double, so their comp score is simply equivalent to Stableford (nett double). Now, if a scratch golfer does the same, their score will be capped to nett 10. So, their nett score is nett +5 rather than nett +2. So, if Maximum Score is used, do high hole scores not have a bigger negative impact on lower handicappers?
