Norrin Radd
Tour Winner
we cant blame JP for Rorys failure as he dosent employ Rory ,and its not like JP hasnt got experience of doing the job ,he was McGinleys caddy for a while i believe
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U
User62651
Guest
To me its mainly Rory, but he would benefit from someone like dare I say it Steve Williams. Rory looks disinterested too easily, if it aint all going his way and he's out front winning he doesn't look able to grind out a score to stay in the tournament when he's not playing so well. Watching him on Saturday was all too familiar, with some application I felt he could've stayed in the tournament by focussing harder on many of those shots and course managing far better, that 77 could've easy been 74. Tiger or Jack could do that, Rory hasn't demonstrated he can, maybe he doesn't care, he's got all he needs in life already.
Siren
Tour Rookie
Rory is his own man and has stated several times he doesnt listen to advice given from others even JP. Remember him hurting his wrist after hitting a shot off a tree root, you could here JP pleading with him not to hit it, he did it anyway and got hurt.
muttleee
Tour Rookie
He also said that he hit it from there because he was 'trying to avoid a slope' so there was at least some sort of reason for it.
mcbroon
Journeyman Pro
This. He gives in too easily. All the way through Saturday he looked as if he had decided that it was all unfair and he wasn't getting any luck, and his attitude was pretty poor. As a result, he lacked focus and made stupid mistakes. Dumping it in the bunker on 2 after Spieth had already hooked one left; going in the bunker on 3, following Spieth left on 4 and then the crowning glory, the brainless 3-putt on 7. All instances where he could have put Spieth under pressure and didn't do it. We all know he has the talent, so there must be something else stopping him. My opinion is that he doesn't have enough fight in him when it's not going his way.
Could a different caddy change that? I don't know. But it would be interesting to see JP give him a rocket at some point when he's huffing his way round.
hines57
Challenge Tour Pro
couldn't agree with you more. I know Rory plays an aggressive game, but why oh why didn't he take 3 wood off the First tee to put the ball in play like all the others were doing! Into the same bunker two days running could have been avoided. He may not want a forceful caddie, but who knows what difference it could have made?
MC72
Assistant Pro
I generally agree with the points you've made above but also feel that there is an issue with the way that Rory wants, or rather is determined to, play. He said in an interview that he knows he can "knock it round Augusta in the 60s standing on his head, the issue is doing it under tournament conditions when it matters and making better decisions". Jordan Speith was happy enough playing lay-ups to the par 5s on Saturday as he knew it would greatly increase his chances of lowering his score and would put him in a far stronger position at the start of Sundays round.
If Rory was more selective with his err....Glory shots he'd have no problem shooting low scores every round. If he was happy to accept that he doesn't have to demolish the ball with every shot he'd be coming into final rounds and final holes of final rounds in pole position. There's definitely times to be aggressive and make the most of your advantage over the rest of the field, and there's also times to accept you don't need to attack the flag and a par is perfectly acceptable.
I'd like to see him be a bit more conservative at times and, for the want of a better term, show a bit more golf golf maturity.
....but then again I've never won a major...!
Hard to say isn't it. We rarely get to hear the conversations regularly but there are two points from the coverage. McIlroy, was clearly in a bad headspace on the 4th tee on Saturday after the approach spun back and he made bogey. A good caddie could have said, calm down and stay patient. I don't think (but can't be certain from the coverage but it didn't appear so) his man did so. Secondly, why didn't Speith simply go to the drop zone, where he knew the yardage and why didn't the caddy insist on doing so, knowing how good his man is. Granted it was a chunk, but I reckon there was too much doubt in Spieths head and he never looked as though he committed to the shot
golfcitydweller
Q-School Graduate
can`t see speith / greller splitting ....greller reads the greens for him and is excellent at it ...only question over greller is that he`s had it all his own way as speith has never really had a collapse mid round when leading , so greller `s never had to pull him out of the mire ....jordan`s ball stiking cost him the masters , not his caddie !
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
One of Paul Caseys interviews was quite enlightening. He has recently changed to Luke Donalds old caddie and couldnt sing his praises enough citing how much he had added and that he felt a far stronger golfer because of the partnership
Don't think Spieth and his caddy will split over this. Why would they? It happens and only a handful of poor shots, admittedly at a bad time. Not like they haven't been successful is it?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I remember these type of conversations two years ago after he had a poor first season with Nike , calls that he was into the gym too much , caring more about the money and social media and suggestions that he take Steve Williams as caddy etc etc
6 weeks later he won the PGA then the Open and then the US PGA
McIlroy is a streaky player - always has been - he will always throughout his career have periods where he won't be at the peak of his game.
He will learn from the last week and move on.
6 weeks later he won the PGA then the Open and then the US PGA
McIlroy is a streaky player - always has been - he will always throughout his career have periods where he won't be at the peak of his game.
He will learn from the last week and move on.
pipedit
Newbie
Apologies in advance, this is a long post!
I have been following Rory McIlroy fairly closely the past 6 months. Anytime he is playing I try to catch the coverage. I do root for him when playing the Masters as I would like to see him achieve something only a select few have. But much of what has been said on this forum has substance.
1. Course Management
Saturday encapsulated what Rory does poorly. Its not just at Augusta that he does this but his mistakes here are magnified due to the green complexes. Yes there are probably mental issues related to The Masters/Grand Slam etc that are affecting him also. Nevertheless nothing encapsulates his course management mistakes more than two particular examples. In Tuesdays press conference he stated he would be taking 3 wood off the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] tee to avoid the bunker on the right. We know what happened Saturday. On the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] after again going into the bunker off the tee he played the shot most likely to end up with bogey. He aimed for the flag that was in the narrow tongue on the front right and was left with an impossible up and down. Spieth would have got that ball anywhere on the green no matter what and two putted par. As for the 11[SUP]th[/SUP]; If he had parred the 11[SUP]th[/SUP] he would have been level par going into the final round just where Danny Willett won it from. To hear Rory speak since Saturday his refrain is “I couldn’t get anything going on the back 9â€. He doesn’t sound ready or able to accept his mistakes. Even in the final round he shot 7 birdies. That gets him into a play off with Danny…………. Except he shot 6 bogeys! How to play Augusta and win is all written down by Nicklaus and Tiger. At the Masters for some reason Rory is incapable of sticking to any gameplan.
2. Technical Swing Issue
Rory has an issue with short iron control. 75 – 150yds. In the past 12 months I’ve seen too many examples of him missing greens with a short iron in hand. It isn’t simply a case of aggressively going for a flag. On occasion he has missed the green completely long or even on the opposite side. He has a tendency to either block or put too much draw spin on the ball. We all know Rory spins his hips fast. Hitting woods/long irons he is always on the edge of getting stuck on the downswing but everything syncs up right at the end because he is swinging full out with his arms. I believe when he is hitting short irons and trying to be more precise his hips are outracing his arms. The stats from the PGA tour back this up. From 50-125 yards he was ranked 32[SUP]nd[/SUP] in 2014. In 2016 he is ranked 111[SUP]th[/SUP]. On approaches from greater than 200yards out he is ranked 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] in those years. Its not unusual to see him hit a 4 iron closer to the pin than a wedge. Is this related to the extra gym work? I don’t know much about core/weights etc but would love to see an analysis of his wedges from 2014 and now.
3. Putting
Of course a major issue but one I think he will come out the other side of, at least often enough to pick up a few more majors
4. Caddy
A lot of what I’ve read about JP has been unfair. He is doing what McIlroy wants him to do. If he tried to exert more control he would be out on his ear. People think it’s as simple as replacing JP. However, McIlroy isn’t going to listen to anyone else either. All pros have huge egos, they have to in order to make it. There is a danger as McIlroy digests this latest Masters his thoughts will turn to blaming someone else instead of looking coldly at the stats and his mistakes. Then you will see JP getting moved on, maybe for just the Masters. I would prefer to see him sit down with everyone on his team and draw up a plan of attack every evening and make him accountable to sticking to it.
Everything above for someone as talented as Rory is easily fixable. BUT if he refuses to adapt/change/take advice he will never win the Masters unless he is basically handed it by someone some year!
I have been following Rory McIlroy fairly closely the past 6 months. Anytime he is playing I try to catch the coverage. I do root for him when playing the Masters as I would like to see him achieve something only a select few have. But much of what has been said on this forum has substance.
1. Course Management
Saturday encapsulated what Rory does poorly. Its not just at Augusta that he does this but his mistakes here are magnified due to the green complexes. Yes there are probably mental issues related to The Masters/Grand Slam etc that are affecting him also. Nevertheless nothing encapsulates his course management mistakes more than two particular examples. In Tuesdays press conference he stated he would be taking 3 wood off the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] tee to avoid the bunker on the right. We know what happened Saturday. On the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] after again going into the bunker off the tee he played the shot most likely to end up with bogey. He aimed for the flag that was in the narrow tongue on the front right and was left with an impossible up and down. Spieth would have got that ball anywhere on the green no matter what and two putted par. As for the 11[SUP]th[/SUP]; If he had parred the 11[SUP]th[/SUP] he would have been level par going into the final round just where Danny Willett won it from. To hear Rory speak since Saturday his refrain is “I couldn’t get anything going on the back 9â€. He doesn’t sound ready or able to accept his mistakes. Even in the final round he shot 7 birdies. That gets him into a play off with Danny…………. Except he shot 6 bogeys! How to play Augusta and win is all written down by Nicklaus and Tiger. At the Masters for some reason Rory is incapable of sticking to any gameplan.
2. Technical Swing Issue
Rory has an issue with short iron control. 75 – 150yds. In the past 12 months I’ve seen too many examples of him missing greens with a short iron in hand. It isn’t simply a case of aggressively going for a flag. On occasion he has missed the green completely long or even on the opposite side. He has a tendency to either block or put too much draw spin on the ball. We all know Rory spins his hips fast. Hitting woods/long irons he is always on the edge of getting stuck on the downswing but everything syncs up right at the end because he is swinging full out with his arms. I believe when he is hitting short irons and trying to be more precise his hips are outracing his arms. The stats from the PGA tour back this up. From 50-125 yards he was ranked 32[SUP]nd[/SUP] in 2014. In 2016 he is ranked 111[SUP]th[/SUP]. On approaches from greater than 200yards out he is ranked 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] in those years. Its not unusual to see him hit a 4 iron closer to the pin than a wedge. Is this related to the extra gym work? I don’t know much about core/weights etc but would love to see an analysis of his wedges from 2014 and now.
3. Putting
Of course a major issue but one I think he will come out the other side of, at least often enough to pick up a few more majors
4. Caddy
A lot of what I’ve read about JP has been unfair. He is doing what McIlroy wants him to do. If he tried to exert more control he would be out on his ear. People think it’s as simple as replacing JP. However, McIlroy isn’t going to listen to anyone else either. All pros have huge egos, they have to in order to make it. There is a danger as McIlroy digests this latest Masters his thoughts will turn to blaming someone else instead of looking coldly at the stats and his mistakes. Then you will see JP getting moved on, maybe for just the Masters. I would prefer to see him sit down with everyone on his team and draw up a plan of attack every evening and make him accountable to sticking to it.
Everything above for someone as talented as Rory is easily fixable. BUT if he refuses to adapt/change/take advice he will never win the Masters unless he is basically handed it by someone some year!
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
"I couldn't get anything going" sounds like he just goes out and hits shots, waiting to catch fire.
When he does he's very hard to beat, but until that happens he needs to (apologies for the Americanism) "golf his ball".
When he does he's very hard to beat, but until that happens he needs to (apologies for the Americanism) "golf his ball".
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
Right your banned straight away mate you cant just waltz up and start talking sense.
Start with a what ball thread and work your way up to the sensible stuff
Welcome along. Unusually wise words. We aren't use to it
Tiger
Money List Winner
Good post pipedit 👍 I think McIlroy main challenge is actually his biggest strength. He hits it miles and I think that has led to him thinking he can overpower any golf course. Pipedit your second point is interesting. The longer you hit your clubs the bigger a gap you have at the bottom of your bag. Perhaps Rory hasn't been spending enough time on his partial swing shots. That would explain why when he's on it he's untouchable because he'll laser in on all the pins.
By contrast Speith isn't very long and the thing I found most surprising at the Masters wasn't his capitulation on the back nine but the fact he had such a commanding lead whilst playing so badly. His scrambling was quite incredible.
After watching this weekend I know who I'm gig to try and emulate. Pitching, chipping and putting practice for me.
And as for JP I think Rory is hard headed and doesn't want conflict. When's he's made his mind up it looks as though you have to let him get on with it. I think he made his mind up before the start of play he was going to take everything on. He seems to compound errors by trying too hard too soon to make up for them.
By contrast Speith isn't very long and the thing I found most surprising at the Masters wasn't his capitulation on the back nine but the fact he had such a commanding lead whilst playing so badly. His scrambling was quite incredible.
After watching this weekend I know who I'm gig to try and emulate. Pitching, chipping and putting practice for me.
And as for JP I think Rory is hard headed and doesn't want conflict. When's he's made his mind up it looks as though you have to let him get on with it. I think he made his mind up before the start of play he was going to take everything on. He seems to compound errors by trying too hard too soon to make up for them.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Fair point which means McIlroy either learns the hard way (throwing away more tournaments?) or he changes and employs a tough caddie. As much as I dislike Steve Williams, I think he would be perfect for Rory.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
I actually think Billy Foster or Craig Connoly would be a great caddie for Rory.
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
I've often thought this about Rory's caddie.
He never seems authoritative enough and gives the impression that he's an older mate just out there for a stroll.
He never seems authoritative enough and gives the impression that he's an older mate just out there for a stroll.
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