Maximum Handicap For Men - Again...

[Piece]

My assumption is that they do this to ensure that people don't come along just because it is Sunningdale and they want to play, despite having no golfing ability. They may slow the pace of play down or at extreme levels, damage the course. 18, 20 - doesn't matter I don't think. They just picked the number to stop non-golfers turning up on corporate gigs I would think.

Not that I am saying that everyone would do this...., nor that 18+ = non-golfer.

Spot-on and this clarifies the OP. Open courses that I've played do exactly the same thing. They also demand a current handicap certificate - I've never had one in 30 years and always managed to get on these type of courses. They'll look at your swing and etiquette, and if its acceptable then you play.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

For many guys, being competitive isn't about competing, rather about not being un-competitive. These are the ones for whom the social side, without being completely out of any match, is more important. I don't believe that approach can be criticised much. - even as being 'managed'. Most I know in that category try hard in competitions but don't practice a lot, so simply accept the results.

Fair enough but that means you have guys in the competition who want to be rewarded for being the best on the day but often lose out to those who are mainly there for the social side and want a h'cap that they know they know they can play too.

It's no surprise then that the former group get a bit miffed with the system on occasions. I suppose the easy answer is to play more scratch comps but they are few and far between at most clubs and getting into scratch opens round my way at least is practically impossible with a h'cap much over 4.

 

[Five&One]

Why would people leave the sport?

I started cos i enjoyed the game nothing to do with thoughts of " oh i'l take up golf, i'll get 28 shots"

I do see where Snelly is coming from, its all to easy to be rubbish and still be able to compete and win stuff.

People who are rubbish aren't winning stuff though. High handicappers are not winning medals, however they are competing and are enthused about the game because they can compete and improvement comes easier when you have that enthusiasm bred through being able to compete whilst you learn.

Medals are predominantly being won by improving mid handicappers during a series of cuts. That's certainly the case at our club. But you have to be able to see the path from mid 20's to mid teens and that path is best negotiated by playing competitive amateur golf against your peers and improving against them

I don't actually see, form our club records, all that many medal wins or even high placings by low single figure golfers. Probably a whole different argument but I wonder why ? There seems to be a level of handicap where the winners come from (between 10 and 18) and outwith those numbers its far less likely it seems to me.

There are 3 handicap 'animals' if you like

1. Between 28 and 21ish. You are an average to poor golfer, probably you don't play enough., If you do, you're probably not learning enough. With hard work perseverance and lessons you can get into the teens but unless you have a real freak round where nothing goes wrong all day you're not going to appear on the rostrum.

2. Between high teens and 10. You are the improver who has done the work and had the lessons. You play quite a lot. Your course management is good, you keep it in play and you usually 2 putt. You are such a good golfer that you are capable of really ripping it up one of these days. You have a competition win in you until you get so good that you are cut below 10.

3. Below 10. You are a superb golfer but you have reached the peak and you cant very often play so far ahead of your handicap that you can fend off the mid handicap guys on a roll. You just cant beat your handicap by enough shots to compete at the prize end. The scope for a score that can win is lesser because you are so good and so consistent.Frustrating as hell because you are losing to lesser golfers very often but we'd all love to be there.

 

[Fish]

Fair enough but that means you have guys in the competition who want to be rewarded for being the best on the day but often lose out to those who are mainly there for the social side and want a h'cap that they know they know they can play too.

It's no surprise then that the former group get a bit miffed with the system on occasions. I suppose the easy answer is to play more scratch comps but they are few and far between at most clubs and getting into scratch opens round my way at least is practically impossible with a h'cap much over 4.

With divisions at my club that doesn't happen.

Our June Medal didn't feature any 19+ handicappers in the top 3 of all 3 divisions with a 7 handicapper coming in with a nett 66 followed by a 2 handicapper with a 67 and then a 10 handicapper with 68. Our Div2 had all 3 spots taken by 11 handicappers with 66, 68 & 68 respectively. Div3 had two 16 handicappers shoot 68 and 3rd spot was an 18 handicapper with a 68.

Where were all the 20+ handicap bandits taking the spoils from the elite :mmm:

The 2 handicapper shot a gross 69 and still didn't win!!

 

[Foxholer]

Fair enough but that means you have guys in the competition who want to be rewarded for being the best on the day but often lose out to those who are mainly there for the social side and want a h'cap that they know they know they can play too.

It's no surprise then that the former group get a bit miffed with the system on occasions. I suppose the easy answer is to play more scratch comps but they are few and far between at most clubs and getting into scratch opens round my way at least is practically impossible with a h'cap much over 4.

By 'staying competitive' I wasn't meaning winning. More like regularly in buffer, perhaps an occasional cut and a few 0.1s, It takes 10 +0.1s to 'drift' up a shot in exact handicap!

Nothing wrong with playing Opens where there are both Scratch and Handicap prizes - The Ascot Stakes at Mill Ride is a nearby one I believe.

Five&One's classification nearly matches my view that the likelihood is that the winner will come from the 11 to 16 range, not just because there are normally more of them than other ranges.

Divisions don't really help the problem Hawkeye was referring to, but certainly help the 'improving high handicapper vs Cat 1' issue.

 

[Matty]

A handicap is an average indication of your play. You will not play to this handicap every time you play. You will hit either side of it normally. Usually you will be pretty close and occasionally you will be quite a way off.

Take Rory McIlroy as an example, in 26 strokeplay rounds this year he has carded +7 twice and -6 twice with an average over the 26 rounds of -0.42.

We all bring a different game to different rounds and score differently. Having a high handicap is not a bad thing unless it's artificial.

Conflicts:
I have a high handicap and will certainly never play Sunningdale - and that doesn't bother me, I play the game for enjoyment, not snobbery.

 

[the-grafter]

I go on a lot of society days with work and other sports clubs and people always win off 20+ handicaps, never less than that in my experience. On a recent work day, one lad won off 22. On the 3 holes where two shots were allowed, the lad got 13 points - he did hit them incredibly well including a gross birdie on a par five - funnily enough I could have had this exact situation today but missed my birdie putt.

Nobody should realistically get two shots, and 18 should be the maximum handicap.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I go on a lot of society days with work and other sports clubs and people always win off 20+ handicaps, never less than that in my experience. On a recent work day, one lad won off 22. On the 3 holes where two shots were allowed, the lad got 13 points - he did hit them incredibly well including a gross birdie on a par five - funnily enough I could have had this exact situation today but missed my birdie putt.

Nobody should realistically get two shots, and 18 should be the maximum handicap.

Society days are a completely different animal

 

[SGC001]

you have to be able to see the path from mid 20's to mid teens and that path is best negotiated by playing competitive amateur golf against your peers and improving against them.

Don't forget the guys and gals with no handicaps.

I played a pretty short course for my 1st game recently and shot about 50 over. I'm not bothered about points (a good job aw it'd be pointless atm), or any other golfer in respect of comparing scores. I'm looking to improve my score and to do that i'll count how many I take thank you very much.

I don't get this stableford mentality, either you want to play golf or you don't and you either count your score or play against somebody else. Stabs should be reserved for betterballs and such like.