Masters is off the Beeb

[Deleted member 15344]

Re point 1. If it’s the same portable tv my folks had, they were considered a luxury and those sort of families will now have sky.

Point 2. You can watch a week of now tv for £8. Seriously the idea it’s either £30 a week or nothing simply isn’t the case and hasn’t been for some time. how many people pay that for Netflix, amazon or a movie these days. The people who genuinely want to watch it will. There are still free highlights for all kids to be able to see. How many stories do we hear where sports stars watched or played a sport with mum/dad? Those parents will still let kids watch it late at night if that’s when it’s free.

Point 1 - how many families really have not just sky Sports but also multi room , again that’s all added extra cost - I was the same , watched golf upstairs on my telly

Point 2 - it’s not just £8 it’s also having the level of broadband to be able to get a decent enough stream - many areas can’t


Ultimately no matter how it’s dressed up the reach of golf to viewers has been dramatically reduced - and just like in other sports it will at some stage affect the grass roots - but the top level will gain the rewards and a small percentage of arm chair fans

 

[Lord Tyrion]

There is a mythology about back in the day. We all watched TV together back then, we don't now. My kids watch on their phones, Netflix, YouTube, almost never BBC or ITV. If it was on BBC would kids sit and listen to Peter Allis and Ken Brown with the lowest tech on offer? They wouldn't stick it for longer than 2 minutes. The coverage was decrepit.

Times have changed but thankfully the European Tour are pretty sharp on their social media and they are doing their best.

As for the BBC and its sports coverage are we bursting at the seams with tennis players, are tennis clubs turning away members? The reality is we have far more successful UK golfers than tennis players despite wall to wall BBC coverage of Wimbledon every year and minimal terrestrial TV coverage of golf.

 

[Pin-seeker]

So that’s the last golf on free to air Telly - not great

Do you not pay your Tv licence Phil?

 

[RangeMonkey]

It’s not up to Sky to develop the game. They are already handing the money over.

The problem (as mayor have been stated, I skimmed a few longer posts) is that unlike with, for example, the football association, the governing body of golf in the UK don’t seem to be managing how the money is distributed.

In fact, I’m not even sure what the golf equivalent of the FA is!

With the money pouring out of Sky, some of it should be funnelled into grass roots, like it is in football.

I might be wrong, but that doesn’t seem to be happening?

 

[Papas1982]

Point 1 - how many families really have not just sky Sports but also multi room , again that’s all added extra cost - I was the same , watched golf upstairs on my telly

Point 2 - it’s not just £8 it’s also having the level of broadband to be able to get a decent enough stream - many areas can’t


Ultimately no matter how it’s dressed up the reach of golf to viewers has been dramatically reduced - and just like in other sports it will at some stage affect the grass roots - but the top level will gain the rewards and a small percentage of arm chair fans

I live in a village where we get at best 4mb download speeds and I'm able to watch sky go. I doubt any population dense areas have speeds so poor.

I agree less people will see it. No question. I just don't believe golf is actually a sport where too many stars in this country past, present or future will have been poor fmaioes that can't afford sky now.

It's expense to play. Watching it is an almost insigniciant cost.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I see both sides and agree with what you and others have said, it’s not up to sky or bbc to grow the game. And you’re right, people who already enjoy the game will pay for sky, and get their kids into it. But I, like many others, had parents who weren’t the slightest bit interested in golf, but I was sports mad and got hooked on golf. It’s those and the casual watchers we’ll be losing, which in my opinion is a bad thing.

I do take the point though that the top players now are superstars, and can only hope that their status and social media following, continues to grow the game.

I’m just peed off that I’ll now have to admit defeat and get sky!

I see that totally. I simply don't see too much proof to correlate these claims that golf on the BBC led to more kids taking the game up. I think your point about the top players all being on social media now and so golf being more accessible through their posts (and some of the funny stuff that people like the European Tour post that clearly gets retweeted around and goes viral) is more relevant.

I would also suggest that the BBC coverage was staid and out of touch with modern broadcasting and sadly, as much as I've admired Peter Alliss and what he's done for golf and on TV, he was so out of touch and made so many mistakes in commentary it became grating

 

[garyinderry]

Hard to know the exact numbers that will watch golf via sky.

Can anyone guess at the numbers watching through illegal means. The amount of people who have it is staggering.

Iptv or even free versions like mobdro.

 

[Beezerk]

There is a mythology about back in the day. We all watched TV together back then, we don't now. My kids watch on their phones, Netflix, YouTube, almost never BBC or ITV. If it was on BBC would kids sit and listen to Peter Allis and Ken Brown with the lowest tech on offer? They wouldn't stick it for longer than 2 minutes. The coverage was decrepit.

Times have changed but thankfully the European Tour are pretty sharp on their social media and they are doing their best.

As for the BBC and its sports coverage are we bursting at the seams with tennis players, are tennis clubs turning away members? The reality is we have far more successful UK golfers than tennis players despite wall to wall BBC coverage of Wimbledon every year and minimal terrestrial TV coverage of golf.

Bang on mate, lets face it, the only people who watch golf on the BBC are those golf fans who are too tight to pay for it

 

[Grant85]

Wonder what the deal was. Assume BBC must have been paying for these broadcast rights, but it would surely also reduced the amount Sky would be willing to pay as a lot of people will gravitate to the beeb for the weekend. Sky have obviously wanted to do the deal to be exclusive broadcaster, which is fair enough.

No issue for me. I have Sky and maintain this for a large part to watch golf. BBC coverage was ok, but it had certainly become a bit twee and old fashioned. It was also hugely frustrating their over covering of the GB players rounds who weren't even in, or close to, contention while missing more important action from the leaders.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It’s not up to Sky to develop the game...

Absolutely - what we need are more dancing girls to attract the blokes...

Though seriously - I think it is rather sad...watching the 1988 Masters on the BBC was pretty instrumental in cementing the relationship between me and my girlfriend of the time - and 31yrs later the same girl was this year sat watching the Masters with me - on the BBC.

As it happens it won't affect me as I have Sky Sports almost solely for the golf- and though I might dump it in the coming months it's easy enough to pick up Sky Golf for a short period covering the Masters. But it just won't be quite the same as the last uninterrupted broadcast major disappears from our screen

Any old excuse

 

[Grant85]

And those saying about 'growing the game' - I do agree that terrestrial TV did a lot to grow sports and sports personalities. But this is a bygone era now and apart from events that are protected by law as free to air (Wimbledon, Olympics, FA Cup final, World Cup etc.) it is simply not a good use of public broadcasters money to pay millions for these events. It's surely only vanity that they continue to shell out for MOTD.

Different for the likes of ITV who are commercial and can (obviously) make a case to show England internationals (but not Scottish or Welsh).

I'm from an era where the big boxing matches were on PPV, and even as a household who had Sky most of the time - no one was paying extra for Boxing. As a result, it wasn't a sport that people got interested in and in the long term I actually think boxing has suffered in popularity as fewer and fewer people watch it as kids and get into it. The people who are into boxing and right into it and pay to watch these fights, but for a lot of people (even keen sports fans) it passes them by.

It seems golf is going this way also with people who are either big fans and will pay subscriptions to watch big golf tournaments but the casual viewer is simply not going to get much in the way of live sport at all (save for the odd international or during Wimbledon fortnight).

But I do think we might start to see 2 things happening...
* continued cost pressure on broadcasters meaning subscriptions for some providers become very affordable (£20 pm for BT sport seems pretty reasonable if you ask me).
* also companies maybe doing a bit more in the way of free views (a bit like Sky sports mix) where they try and get people into their coverage to try and tempt the casual viewer to invest more time and money into it.

 

[rksquire]

Not a big deal for me. How we consume TV has totally changed, Britbox is a stepping stone surely to a subscription service for the BBC, people are no longer happy paying for a license when paying for other digital services. Football this year will be spread over Sky, BT and Amazon. Entertainment programmes in our household are spread over Netflix, Amazon, Sky, Youtube and BBC/ITV/C4 catchup services. The only thing I watch live is football and golf. Being free to air attracts more viewing figures, but this doesn't translate to increased memberships. Kids are interested in Youtube / Instagram / Twitter / Tiktok etc. I'm sad for anyone of a certain age (my mum!) that solely relies on free to air television, and would probably have tuned, but only if a British or Irish player was doing well.

 

[MendieGK]

This old argument again.
BBC did nothing to grow the game, explain to me how Peter Allis who thinks playing should still play persimmon is growing the game. He’s so far out of the loop

No child is ‘stumbling’ across the golf because it’s on BBC - no child watches terrestrial TV.

Every single shot was available on the masters app within seconds of it being hit last year.

The #masters on Twitter is far more likely to attract the youth

Personally I think those of you of an older age are a little out of the loop as to the way this stuff works nowadays. I don’t mean that rudely at all, even at 32 I’m falling behind, but families just don’t sit down to watch stuff anymore. EVERYTHING is on demand

 

[Swango1980]

Excellent. Sky's coverage, in my opinion, is FAR superior to that of the BBC. Don't get me wrong, I've watched it happily enough years ago on BBC, but Peter Allis' controversial comments and Ken Brown's beachball rolling just doesn't quite live up to the Sky coverage. What's more, outside the actual playing times, for the real enthusiasts you can watch all sorts of other related features, Par 3 comp and red button options on a pretty much 24-hour period during and leading up to the event. The only potential argument against Sky is the fact that it has advertisements, BBC does not. But, as others have said, the advertisements are not bunched up close together, nor do they last long (unlike standard PGA tour events, where Sky simply uses the American coverage, and they love their ads). If anything, it's nice to get the odd break, especially when the coverage is so long.

If the golf is on Sky, that is a sign that they are willing to invest heavily. If it is on BBC, that is probably a sign that Sky are unwilling to invest as heavily, which would probably be a more worrying sign for golf.

As far as the decline of golf at club level, and closure of golf courses, I am pretty sure this has virtually nothing to do with what is available for free on the TV or not. As has been mentioned by others, membership at clubs (not just golf, could be yacht clubs or whatever) by families is probably very much in decline. Going back decades ago, where there were probably only 2-5 available TV channels, no internet, no computer games, etc, families were probably more inclined to gravitate towards social activities like golf, and spend a lot of their lives there. Now, adults have more to distract them, and more to do for their children most likely (driving them further afield as the world has got bigger due "easier" methods of transport). Kids may well end up sitting in front of a TV all day, hopping through hundreds of channels or just going to Netflix / YouTube or CatchUp to watch what they like when they like. They may play computer games all day. These are the challenges that golf clubs face. Suddenly showing the Masters on the BBC, or even all the Majors, isn't going to solve all their problems, and probably none of their problems.

For less than £10 I get all golf, most of the Premiership, and all the Grand Prixs. So, virtually every weekend I have loads to watch and a lot over the week as well (and I'm not even interested in the other sports they have). Not bad if you compare that to a night out, going out for dinner or a trip to the cinema. I don't feel I have a right to ask for any of these things for free, after all someone has to pay. OK, if you are only interested in golf and that is it, then maybe you can opt to buy a pass just to get that for a particular weekend. I wasn't sure if that was possible, but by the sounds of it others here have said it is.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This old argument again.
BBC did nothing to grow the game, explain to me how Peter Allis who thinks playing should still play persimmon is growing the game. He’s so far out of the loop

No child is ‘stumbling’ across the golf because it’s on BBC - no child watches terrestrial TV.

Every single shot was available on the masters app within seconds of it being hit last year.

The #masters on Twitter is far more likely to attract the youth

Personally I think those of you of an older age are a little out of the loop as to the way this stuff works nowadays. I don’t mean that rudely at all, even at 32 I’m falling behind, but families just don’t sit down to watch stuff anymore. EVERYTHING is on demand

The BBC did grow the game in the past - simply by broadcasting The Open and through programmes such as Pro-Celebrity Golf and A Round with Alliss. But these days when BBC could do the TV promoting of golf without significant expenditure are long gone.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Excellent. Sky's coverage, in my opinion, is FAR superior to that of the BBC. Don't get me wrong, I've watched it happily enough years ago on BBC, but Peter Allis' controversial comments and Ken Brown's beachball rolling just doesn't quite live up to the Sky coverage. What's more, outside the actual playing times, for the real enthusiasts you can watch all sorts of other related features, Par 3 comp and red button options on a pretty much 24-hour period during and leading up to the event. The only potential argument against Sky is the fact that it has advertisements, BBC does not. But, as others have said, the advertisements are not bunched up close together, nor do they last long (unlike standard PGA tour events, where Sky simply uses the American coverage, and they love their ads). If anything, it's nice to get the odd break, especially when the coverage is so long.

If the golf is on Sky, that is a sign that they are willing to invest heavily. If it is on BBC, that is probably a sign that Sky are unwilling to invest as heavily, which would probably be a more worrying sign for golf.

As far as the decline of golf at club level, and closure of golf courses, I am pretty sure this has virtually nothing to do with what is available for free on the TV or not. As has been mentioned by others, membership at clubs (not just golf, could be yacht clubs or whatever) by families is probably very much in decline. Going back decades ago, where there were probably only 2-5 available TV channels, no internet, no computer games, etc, families were probably more inclined to gravitate towards social activities like golf, and spend a lot of their lives there. Now, adults have more to distract them, and more to do for their children most likely (driving them further afield as the world has got bigger due "easier" methods of transport). Kids may well end up sitting in front of a TV all day, hopping through hundreds of channels or just going to Netflix / YouTube or CatchUp to watch what they like when they like. They may play computer games all day. These are the challenges that golf clubs face. Suddenly showing the Masters on the BBC, or even all the Majors, isn't going to solve all their problems, and probably none of their problems.

For less than £10 I get all golf, most of the Premiership, and all the Grand Prixs. So, virtually every weekend I have loads to watch and a lot over the week as well (and I'm not even interested in the other sports they have). Not bad if you compare that to a night out, going out for dinner or a trip to the cinema. I don't feel I have a right to ask for any of these things for free, after all someone has to pay. OK, if you are only interested in golf and that is it, then maybe you can opt to buy a pass just to get that for a particular weekend. I wasn't sure if that was possible, but by the sounds of it others here have said it is.

Couple of questions

Less than £10 a week ? A bit more than that for the sports on Sky

Invest in Golf - it’s an interesting saying , is it like all the other sports they have invested in where the money increases into the sport - yep but it stays at the high level and that’s it , does that help the sport ? Well it certainly helps the pros getting more money no doubt but I doubt it does nothing to help the sport or grow the game

Showing the game on Terrestrial May not help the sport - removing it certainly won’t and whilst no one can say for certain there can be no doubt imo that less people watching the sport is not a good thing and imo will have an affect on participation- how big that is who knows but golf has prob just lost another couple million viewers.

So we have gone from having approx 4 million watching the Open to around at best 1 mil and about 2/3 mill who watch the Masters to about half a mil - that for me isn’t good but it was only a matter of time - Sports moving to Sky has increased funding but I expect had decreased participation - it’s no surprise that after an Olympics there is a small boom off sports that are showing during the games - thankfully every four years there will golf

 

[Swango1980]

Couple of questions

Less than £10 a week ? A bit more than that for the sports on Sky

Invest in Golf - it’s an interesting saying , is it like all the other sports they have invested in where the money increases into the sport - yep but it stays at the high level and that’s it , does that help the sport ? Well it certainly helps the pros getting more money no doubt but I doubt it does nothing to help the sport or grow the game

Showing the game on Terrestrial May not help the sport - removing it certainly won’t and whilst no one can say for certain there can be no doubt imo that less people watching the sport is not a good thing and imo will have an affect on participation- how big that is who knows but golf has prob just lost another couple million viewers.

So we have gone from having approx 4 million watching the Open to around at best 1 mil and about 2/3 mill who watch the Masters to about half a mil - that for me isn’t good but it was only a matter of time - Sports moving to Sky has increased funding but I expect had decreased participation - it’s no surprise that after an Olympics there is a small boom off sports that are showing during the games - thankfully every four years there will golf

I can't remember how much the sports package is, is it not around £40ish a month? In total, I pay just over £100 but that includes everything except movies (I.e all the other tv, phone line and broadband). So, overall fairly expensive, but the sports is about £40-£50.

The only way I can see golf ever being free again, and assuming it's not cos Sky don't want to pay for it, is if the government say golf, or at least The Open, is an OFCOM category A event, which means it must be shown live on free to air TV. That's basically why Wimbledon, Grand National, FIFA World Cups, Euros and FA Cup Final are free to watch, they have to be. However, it's only classed at Category B, so that just means the highlights must at least be on free to air. In terms of The Masters, I suspect that's not on the list at all.

So, maybe it is up to the BBC or the leading golf bodies to get events like The Open on the Cat A list, although I'm not quite sure how it is all sorted. I think the Secretary of State for Sport and Leisure (or some title like that) has the final say.

 

[MendieGK]

The BBC did grow the game in the past - simply by broadcasting The Open and through programmes such as Pro-Celebrity Golf and A Round with Alliss. But these days when BBC could do the TV promoting of golf without significant expenditure are long gone.

I meant growing the game recently. Talking about the fact that golf and the BBC are no longer

 

[Crow]

I say this; Sky is ***, the BBC is great.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I can't remember how much the sports package is, is it not around £40ish a month? In total, I pay just over £100 but that includes everything except movies (I.e all the other tv, phone line and broadband). So, overall fairly expensive, but the sports is about £40-£50.

You can’t get the sports on its own though , still need to pay the extra to get the entertainment etc so it’s about £60 plus a month , either way it’s not cheap

The only way I can see golf ever being free again, and assuming it's not cos Sky don't want to pay for it, is if the government say golf, or at least The Open, is an OFCOM category A event, which means it must be shown live on free to air TV. That's basically why Wimbledon, Grand National, FIFA World Cups, Euros and FA Cup Final are free to watch, they have to be. However, it's only classed at Category B, so that just means the highlights must at least be on free to air. In terms of The Masters, I suspect that's not on the list at all.

So, maybe it is up to the BBC or the leading golf bodies to get events like The Open on the Cat A list, although I'm not quite sure how it is all sorted. I think the Secretary of State for Sport and Leisure (or some title like that) has the final say.

Working in media company I know how the protected status works

That is the only way but the sport’s governing bodies will do nothing because they enjoy the money that comes into them

There is talk that there will be changes this year - cricket the main one with Ashes returning to a Cat A event , fingers crossed that The Open returns at one stage. The R&A imo will be a touch worried about the restricted viewing