SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Being pedantic - a LR on PLs might not (in error most likely) state you can't place on a green - but in that case I am not sure of a relevant main rule to prohibit it.
Being pedantic - a LR on PLs might not (in error most likely) state you can't place on a green - but in that case I am not sure of a relevant main rule to prohibit it.
rulefan
Tour Winner
It doesn't need a 'main' rule. The Local Rule is a Rule (as defined). A Committee cannot modify (even by mistake) a Rule that has been published in the Rules (as defined). The LR is 'illegal' and is not recognised by the R&A.
A competition played with a (purported) LR allowing placing on the green is not recognised by CONGU as a Qualifying Competition.
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Colin L
Tour Winner
The Rules have to presume that Local Rules are as recommended: they are additional rules authorised to cater for particular local situations. A local rule might be completely wrong or, like this one, miss something important out. There is no point in looking in the Rules for something to make up for the missing part, especially if you just pick what takes your fancy. As I suggested, you can just as easily cite a rule which allows you to drop on a putting green as one that doesn't.
If a local rule is wrong or incomplete, the only thing to do is to get rid of it or change it, In the meantime, players should abide by it because the definition of the rules by which you play includes local rules. If that means being able to place your ball on a preferred lie on the putting green, so be it.
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rulefan
Tour Winner
CONGU 15.3 It is emphasised that preferred lies must apply only when a Local Rule has been made and publishedin accordance with Appendix I, Part B, 4c of the Rules of Golf:
Colin L
Tour Winner
I should maybe put together my earlier comments and Rulefan's reminder of CONGU regulations:
As I understand it, if a local rule is not an approved one, it is nonetheless what a player is going to have to abide by in his play. A competition can be run and won with prizes dished out etc despite the fact that the LR is wrong. It is when it comes to handicapping, which is a matter beyond the confines of the competition itself, that the CONGU rules come into effect and the competition would, by virtue of the unauthorised LR, be non-qualifying. A competition can operate even though the rules don't all conform to R&A Rules (we do it all the time with scrambles, greensomes, 4-club competitions etc) and it doesn't affect anyone outside itself. Handicapping does, however, affect every player in the system and so it is necessary to impose restrictions on what can be a qualifying competition with the result that scrambles, greensomes. 4-club competitions and competitions using unauthorised local rules are non-qualifying.
As I understand it, if a local rule is not an approved one, it is nonetheless what a player is going to have to abide by in his play. A competition can be run and won with prizes dished out etc despite the fact that the LR is wrong. It is when it comes to handicapping, which is a matter beyond the confines of the competition itself, that the CONGU rules come into effect and the competition would, by virtue of the unauthorised LR, be non-qualifying. A competition can operate even though the rules don't all conform to R&A Rules (we do it all the time with scrambles, greensomes, 4-club competitions etc) and it doesn't affect anyone outside itself. Handicapping does, however, affect every player in the system and so it is necessary to impose restrictions on what can be a qualifying competition with the result that scrambles, greensomes. 4-club competitions and competitions using unauthorised local rules are non-qualifying.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Appreciating that you are making the general point now which is what I'm after - I take from this that were a LR on PLs to omit to mention that you couldn't place on the green - then a player is perfectly entitled to do so. No matter what the Rules say or might be inferred from them.
Colin L
Tour Winner
In my view, competitors should abide by local rules as stated. The very practical reasons being that
- the rules include, by definition, all local rules, not just the ones you think are ok;
- it is unrealistic to expect players to know if a local rule is authorised or not;
- if you allowed players to decide on the legitimacy of local rules you could end up with a mess of inconsistencies - some deciding an unauthorised one was legitimate and playing to it, some deciding it wasn't and not applying it and some deciding a perfectly sound one wasn't and not applying it.
In the specific example you refer to, I would say that you could indeed place your ball on the green if the local rule wrongly did not specifically forbid it. That this would render the competition non-qualifying is a separate, although important matter.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Perfect - thankyou sir!
