ScienceBoy
Money List Winner
Don't read the post I quoted...
EDIT: Also the guys name "Ken Fit...like" has me suspecting it is a current forum member!
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Mark Crossfield shaft comparisons
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Don't read the post I quoted...
EDIT: Also the guys name "Ken Fit...like" has me suspecting it is a current forum member!
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
the answer to this is easy if you substitute 'can' for 'does' - yes it can.
however there's a probably a bit more tollerance than is sometimes suggested, and of course there's the ability for some club heads to affect factors normally associated with shafts etc
the better you are at swinging (which isn't always the same as handicap) the more you can handle a range of shafts for similar results
all that said, more flexible shafts will generally give more distance at the 'cost' of more spread/dispersion for an average golfer.
this is why the most common judgements are 'I can't control them' and 'I can't get anything out of them'...
User 105
Journeyman Pro
For irons I don't think shaft flex has as bigger impact as people think unless you swing either freakishly fast or slow. I think in irons probably head design is more critical depending on the quality of strike you can put on the ball.
But if you're going to get new clubs might as well get custom if you're not having to fork out for it. But don't expect miracles.
I know when I was fitted for my s56's there was a difference in reg and stiff from the trackman stats. reg's went slightly further on average, but probably only a by few %. But the stiffs had better dispersion. But again only by a few %. And because I didn't hit thousands of balls I'm not sure how much of that was the club vs my not 100% consistent swing.
But if you're going to get new clubs might as well get custom if you're not having to fork out for it. But don't expect miracles.
I know when I was fitted for my s56's there was a difference in reg and stiff from the trackman stats. reg's went slightly further on average, but probably only a by few %. But the stiffs had better dispersion. But again only by a few %. And because I didn't hit thousands of balls I'm not sure how much of that was the club vs my not 100% consistent swing.
HughJars
Q-School Graduate
When are you going to tell us how you came to have the clubs in your bag that you do? it's been asked and ignored many times in multiple threads whenver you poo-poo custom fitting? yet your bag is full of anything but standard off the shelf kit, so how did you do it?
timchump
Q-School Graduate
not sure why people are anti custom fitting
i'm 6 foot 2 so my shafts were lengthened by an inch
mid size grips more comfortable in my bigger hands
2 degrees upright - this was done for my swing at the time so could need tweeking
dynamic gold s300 shafts, i have a quick tempo and like to give the ball the full monty treatment
what's wrong with getting clubs that suit for me better than standard especially when its free?
surely you wouldn't by clothes that don't fit you, i personally prefer going to a taylor for my suits
:rant:
i'm 6 foot 2 so my shafts were lengthened by an inch
mid size grips more comfortable in my bigger hands
2 degrees upright - this was done for my swing at the time so could need tweeking
dynamic gold s300 shafts, i have a quick tempo and like to give the ball the full monty treatment
what's wrong with getting clubs that suit for me better than standard especially when its free?
surely you wouldn't by clothes that don't fit you, i personally prefer going to a taylor for my suits
:rant:
HughJars
Q-School Graduate
A need to be different, a desire to be awkward, perverseness? God knows, but it's free, you're buying clubs anyway, and it's simpler and easier to simply punt something off the shelves, yet some - well one let's be honest here - thinks it's in the retailers/manufacturers interests to spend time and money going through a free fit and making up clubs to individual specs. Internet bampottery at its finest.
Ken Fitlike
Medal Winner
North-east colloquialism - ' ken fit like min' :thup:Don't read the post I quoted...
EDIT: Also the guys name "Ken Fit...like" has me suspecting it is a current forum member!
shewy
Journeyman Pro
Correct answer, Nae bad chavin awa
Mungoscorner
Journeyman Pro
Whats not standard off the shelf kit ?
Driver has an after market shaft,why ? because i had the same shaft in my previous driver,and low and behold somebody was selling the TP head with the same shaft already fitted.
Rescue club,the Voodoo is standard fit on the TP club.
2 Iron, sensicore S300,standard fit.
4-PW,S300,standard fit.
Wedges,TT wedge shaft,standard fit.
Irons are all regular loft and lie.
Rescue has the FCT set to 'N',standard.
Driver has 2x12g,and 2x2g weights,standard.
Grips are all 1 layer of tape.
I'm 5'10,and 12 stone.
Now,what isn't standard about my kit ?
As for poo pooing custom fitting,i said that custom fitting is of little or no benefit to the high handicap golfer,of average size,and that is a view shared by many people far better qualified than me or you.
Ethan
Money List Winner
This is a logical fallacy called the 'appeal to authority' which is an argument used by those who don't have any coherent arguments left to make. It basically says that some, maybe only one, important person in a field agrees with the poster so you, who disagrees, should shut up. It is a weak and rather arrogant argument, but more importantly, a flawed one. You can always find one or two such people, and it ignores the overwhelming opinion to the contrary. You can find one or two people who think the world was created 6000 years ago. It wasn't.
The fact that mungoscorner always yaks on and on and on about average size shows he doesn't really understand what custom fitting is about anyway.
There are plenty of leading pros, indeed the great majority, who agree that custom fitting is a benefit for the average golfer. It is not a substitute for lessons or improved technique, nor is it a panacea and guarantee of immediately plunging handicap and nobody has argued that it is any of those. The Mark Crossfield videos arguably show that a pro can play with a range of flexes and adjust to them, but they don't show, and I rather doubt that Crossfield would even argue, if the average player can.
Mungoscorner
Journeyman Pro
Show me absolute proof that custom fitting is of benefit to the "improving" golfer ?
How in gods name do you custom fit an inconsistent swing thats arguably going to change/improve over a period of weeks/months/years,or should you be custom fitted every other week ?
As for me not understanding "custom fitting",i'd say that although i'm no expert,i'm pretty sure i can grasp the fact that loft,lie,flex etc can be adjusted to match a certain swing.
Iron Byron would of been "fitted", but then again his swing is "fixed".
I know numerous golfers who have been "fitted",there game is at the same level it was with there previous clubs,and will be the same with the next set.
You can only be fitted for the swing that you have on the day of the fitting.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Ah, where to begin.
Lets begin with this hoary old chestnut that you can only be fitted for the 'swing you have that day'. It is certainly true that the average golfer, no, actually, all golfers' swings vary. But to listen to you guys you might think that the average 15 handicapper hits one shot with 90 mph swing speed, a steep attack and an inside path, then the next with 74 mph swing speed, an upward strike and over the top. That really isn't the case. Excepting the occasional total mishit, when being fitted or not makes no difference, most golfers operate with a set of swing features, with swing speeds in a range, and certain more or less ubiquitous swing features. And with any data set (which a set of swings generate) you can make general conclusions about the average or typical pattern. The average golfer, unlike the pro, hasn't the smooth tempo or feel needed to allow them to play with any old set.
Now an improving golfer is a different case, and a young fit guy who has taken up the game and whose handicap is dropping like David Cameron's approval rating is clearly going to get better and may need different equipment. But most players aren't like that. In fact many are just the opposite, getting worse due to age, work and family commitments cutting down playing time etc and wanting to hang on to their distance and ability to flight the ball despite less practice.
Now, you are a big believer in the notion that the 'average guy' can use average clubs. That may be (although isn't always) true for lie and length, but you only have to look at a couple of 4 balls off the first tee to see how differently different players play. It would seem to stand to reason that not all of these golfers can use the same equipment, and that equipment which is tailored to each player would work better.
In order to "prove" or "disprove" that custom fitting "works" or not, you would have to do the following. Take a large sample of players across handicap and age/size ranges. "Fit" each player properly, but give half of the players a randomly chosen "wrong" fit, albeit labelled and looking exactly like what they were fitted for. The fitters and players should not know this part is happening. Allow them to play for a season. Measure average scores or reduction/increase in handicap.
I am in the business of doing trials. Absolute proof is an elusive concept because I have found that people who don't want to believe something just won't believe any evidence which disagrees with their world view.
Oh, and it isn't 'should of', it is 'should have'.
HughJars
Q-School Graduate
I don't see a regular shaft anywhere? Why are you playing TP blades and not cavity backs? Why S300 and not KBS stiff?
How did you come by an after-market shaft? Why are you chasing a TP head?
How did you choose that shaft? Why are you playing a TP head?
Why are you playing an S300 here?
Standard fit for whom? My handicap is lower than yours, I wouldn;t dream of playing a 2 iron, or indeed S300, or any stiff steel shafts, why are you?
Why those wedges?
...and there we have it, Mr Average can buy anything off the shelf, so woe betide anyone else trying to get clubs to fit them. Clubs are made for Mr average, in fact, Mr 5'10" is exactly what they are made for, so while you can sit there telling everybody not to bother getting fitted, you're doing them a huge dis=service, becasue most will need an adjustment.
Mungoscorner
Journeyman Pro
Ethan,
If custom fitting was of any benefit to me,i'd be fitted tomorrow (friends in the business),so i'm not being awkward and disagreeing with custom fitting just for the sake of it,i'm telling you what i've witnessed with my own eyes,custom fitting alonewill not improve your golf game/scores.
Now,could you answer a couple of questions please ?
Not all custom fitting is free,so what is the customer paying for,if his game doesn't improve ?
What is your Handicap ?
What qualifies you to answer so many questions related to custom fitting and golf equipment/shafts (not being argumentative here,i'm just curious) ?
Why did you highlight/correct my grammar ?
T
thecraw
Guest
This is where I'm very open as I've been custom fitted a few times now and in reality custom fitting indoor on a trackman is only number crunching. I've had four sets of irons custom fitted in this way. One set I punted within two months losing £300 in the process. The other three sets I've had to revisit and get alterations to the lie. A static fitting is a start but from my experience not an exact science that's going to be the finished article.
HughJars
Q-School Graduate
Well as i've said to you before, I'm a custom fitter, I've also said high cappers will see relatively little gain from a fit, however while I agree there will be many people better qualified than me to talk on the subject, you I'm afraid are not one of them.
Mungoscorner
Journeyman Pro
Answer the question,and stop trying to create a smokescreen by questioning my choice of clubs.
Why should somebody choose custom fitted clubs,what will they get for there £'s in terms of improvement/scores ?
HughJars
Q-School Graduate
CUSTOM FITTING IS FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no smokescreen here, every time I try to fathom how you have come to have such far form ordinary clubs in your bag, you avoid the question, I would like an answer? First though, and not something I havn't alluded to before, I will again answer your question, so you can then answer mine!
As to what will a custom fitted player get for his FREE FITTING? Well, he'll have found the right head for his game, he'll have found the right shaft for his game, he'll have the correct grip for him, and he'll have had the lie and length adjusted to fit him and his swing, and not a guy who is 5'10" and swings it on a correct plane.
Will his game improve, and his scores? Who knows, but he will have given himself every chance, whereas poicking up a set of X flex blades like Rory plays, when you're a 15 handicapper, I think even someone as obstinate and contrary as you, can admit will not.
HughJars
Q-School Graduate
rather than ask that, which part of what he says is incorrect? More to the point, what qualifies you to decry custom fitting?
Piece
Tour Winner
I'll wade in too, as a veteran of many custom fits, regular user of Precision Golf and a dab hand with launch monitors (best friends distributes the GC2 monitor to tour pros).
I've said on other similar threads that a good custom fit will not necessarily buy you a better game, but a bad fit will certainly make your game worse.
Custom fit is not for everybody. Average Joe will do fine with off the shelf sticks. Those at the extreme end will benefit more.
There are different levels of custom fit. The free ones tend to look at the basics: loft, lie, length, grip, shaft. You can pay more for the next level that accounts for kick points, swing weights, frequency matching, pureing, blah. You pay your money...
Some people unknowingly 'custom fit' themselves. They know their ball flight and therefore chose clubs that give the flight and performance that they want to see. This explains why most decent players are decent players whilst proclaiming they've never had a fit. Remember, the ball NEVER lies whilst launch data can.
"You only get fitted for the swing you have on day" - bit of an old wives tale this. All golfers have consistency, it just that the better golfers are better more of the time. Any decent fitter worth their salt will understand this, strip out swing data or ball flight that isnt the norm to leave a 'blue print' of that golfers swing. They can then fit them accordingly.
For me custom fitting takes some of the uncertainty out of the game. If gives confidence where maybe it wasn't there before. I've said it before, the best way to get better is to have lessons coupled with a fit.
I've said on other similar threads that a good custom fit will not necessarily buy you a better game, but a bad fit will certainly make your game worse.
Custom fit is not for everybody. Average Joe will do fine with off the shelf sticks. Those at the extreme end will benefit more.
There are different levels of custom fit. The free ones tend to look at the basics: loft, lie, length, grip, shaft. You can pay more for the next level that accounts for kick points, swing weights, frequency matching, pureing, blah. You pay your money...
Some people unknowingly 'custom fit' themselves. They know their ball flight and therefore chose clubs that give the flight and performance that they want to see. This explains why most decent players are decent players whilst proclaiming they've never had a fit. Remember, the ball NEVER lies whilst launch data can.
"You only get fitted for the swing you have on day" - bit of an old wives tale this. All golfers have consistency, it just that the better golfers are better more of the time. Any decent fitter worth their salt will understand this, strip out swing data or ball flight that isnt the norm to leave a 'blue print' of that golfers swing. They can then fit them accordingly.
For me custom fitting takes some of the uncertainty out of the game. If gives confidence where maybe it wasn't there before. I've said it before, the best way to get better is to have lessons coupled with a fit.
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