Mark Crossfield shaft comparisons

[CMAC]

This is something we've discussed here several times..........here's some tested results

[video=youtube_share;MDaKUHxk0I8]http://youtu.be/MDaKUHxk0I8[/video]
http://youtu.be/MDaKUHxk0I8

 

[HughJars]

You got a link to his driver shaft comparisons?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I am getting into Mark Crossfields stuff. He talks a lot of unbiased sense and his reviews are pretty good

 

[Ethan]

Again, this "experiment" really only addresses one point - the effect of the shaft on launch angle, and once again, that launch angle is largely dictated by the loft of the club.

Dispersion is a different question. Let a 15 handicapper try it and the dispersion will be much higher.

Mark Crossfield is not arguing, nor would he be correct to, that flex makes no difference and that it doesn't matter if you have a ladies shaft or an X flex. I haven't seen any data on distance or distance variability.

There are a few technical problems with the conduct of the experiment. First, he has a pre-conceived idea of what the experiment should show. Second, he is not "blinded" to the flex. He believes that there is no effect on launch and also knows what shaft he is using, and as a highly skilled pro he can consciously or unconsciously adjust his strike to compensate. He also tries quite hard to explain away elements of the experiment with which he disagrees.

 

[thecraw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3OjYpVZXCc


I think this is much more interesting if I'm being honest.

 

[duncan mackie]

Mark Crossfield is not arguing, nor would he be correct to, that flex makes no difference and that it doesn't matter if you have a ladies shaft or an X flex. I haven't seen any data on distance or distance variability.

given the illustrated club head speeds, launch angles and spin rates in the data set shown would you expect any difference in distance from the same clubhead?

I do agree that Mark is capable of inherently adjusting to the shaft in use though!

 

[Mungoscorner]

Thank you Mr Crossfield.

Guess i was right about custom fitting all along.

 

[Piece]

Another point to add is that Mark's consistent swing is a steady tempo and average golfers speed, meaning that most flexes will perform the same. Do the same analysis on a fast tempo or SS 95+ mph, then you should find the Project X will be more suited.

 

[Ethan]

given the illustrated club head speeds, launch angles and spin rates in the data set shown would you expect any difference in distance from the same clubhead?

I do agree that Mark is capable of inherently adjusting to the shaft in use though!

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that it is unsurprising that a pro can create similar launch conditions from a range of clubs, but an average handicapper would show much more exaggerated differences.

I remember seeing Michael Campbell do a clinic shortly after his US Open win and he hit drivers with ladies flex shafts in them and striped them long and straight up the fairway. Good tempo forgives a lot.

I have also seen a 15 handicapper unwittingly pick up a set of X flex irons and play a round in which he didn't get one iron shot above head height, and lost 10s of yards on almost every shot.

 

[Imurg]

Thank you Mr Crossfield.

Guess i was right about custom fitting all along.

But doesn't he say that the stats are only as similar as they are because he hits the ball out of the middle of the club more often than a handicap golfer would?
Doesn't he say that if a handicap golfer played 5 shots with each shaft/head the variances would be much bigger......?
I can be fairly sure if I hit 5 shots with each of combo the stats would be like chalk and cheese.
Doesn't that mean there must be some form of "fitting" to get more consistent results?

It's been said on here and elsewhere millions of times - a Pro could use anything and make most of us look like beginners.

 

[Mungoscorner]

But doesn't he say that the stats are only as similar as they are because he hits the ball out of the middle of the club more often than a handicap golfer would?
Doesn't he say that if a handicap golfer played 5 shots with each shaft/head the variances would be much bigger......?
I can be fairly sure if I hit 5 shots with each of combo the stats would be like chalk and cheese.
Doesn't that mean there must be some form of "fitting" to get more consistent results?

It's been said on here and elsewhere millions of times - a Pro could use anything and make most of us look like beginners.

Not hitting the middle of the clubface with any regularity is exactly the reason why custom fitting is such a questionable science.

Player 'A' only hits the middle of the clubface once in every 7-8 shots so he needs a particular model and flex of shaft ?

Player 'B' hits the middle of the clubface almost every time,so he can use any model and flex of shaft ?

Nah,i ain't buying it.

 

[Tommo21]

Thank you Mr Crossfield.

Guess i was right about custom fitting all along.

Was that about custom fitting.....

 

[Foxholer]

given the illustrated club head speeds, launch angles and spin rates in the data set shown would you expect any difference in distance from the same clubhead?

I do agree that Mark is capable of inherently adjusting to the shaft in use though!

It would also be possible to see this as an argument FOR custom fitting.

Simply saying I hit a 7-iron 150, therefore I need a Stiff shaft is just as spurious. (Proper) custom fitting allows you to get a feel for the shafts and provides the data that can assist with any choice. Several of the guys I know who have been properly custom-fit (specifically for Drivers) have not opted for the absolute max length one, but have optimised feel, distance and dispersion - under both 80% and 95% swings!

BTW. Launch Monitors aren't the be-all and end-all of Custom Fitting, but they do provide the evidence - and can be used in an enclosed space. There are plenty of Pros who can and do still Custom Fit by eye/ear just as accurately on a range.

 

[Alex1975]

Its his third video on shaft flex, he may do kick point soon so we will see data for length and hight. People who take this stuff literally "custom fitting does not work" do not want it to....

 

[Ken Fitlike]

Its his third video on shaft flex, he may do kick point soon so we will see data for length and hight. People who take this stuff literally "custom fitting does not work" do not want it to....

Bingo! I can't believe some people would not have a custom fit? Why would you want to play with the wrong clubs?

 

[ScienceBoy]

Bingo! I can't believe some people would not have a custom fit? Why would you want to play with the wrong clubs?

Mungo! Avert your eyes!

I think reality is not as clear cut as this, a set of stock clubs are never the WRONG clubs, just potentiallty not the most optimal.

Also with generally improving or variable swings no set of clubs is ever going to be the CORRECT set.

Iron shafts probably make marginal difference to SOME people (unless you have a body very different to the average person) but not the majority. Driver and wood shafts, which are usually graphite, benefit the majority if fitted.

Never EVER tell yourself you are playing with the wrong clubs, if they work for you then that is good enough, if you want to be confident they are more optimal (at the time of fitting) go get fitted!

 

[shewy]

Great video, I kind of was figuring this out for myself, I've tried all sorts and my launch angle never really changes,so I guess it's me not the club.
The one question I would have is, does the shaft flex effect distance?

 

[Ken Fitlike]

Mungo! Avert your eyes!

I think reality is not as clear cut as this, a set of stock clubs are never the WRONG clubs, just potentiallty not the most optimal.

Also with generally improving or variable swings no set of clubs is ever going to be the CORRECT set.

Iron shafts probably make marginal difference to SOME people (unless you have a body very different to the average person) but not the majority. Driver and wood shafts, which are usually graphite, benefit the majority if fitted.

Never EVER tell yourself you are playing with the wrong clubs, if they work for you then that is good enough, if you want to be confident they are more optimal (at the time of fitting) go get fitted!

But surely you're just saying the same thing? Wrong clubs = sub-optimal?

If you don't have a fitting, but just buy what you think is the nicest looking, how can you ever be confident there's not better out there for you?

 

[Ken Fitlike]

Not hitting the middle of the clubface with any regularity is exactly the reason why custom fitting is such a questionable science.

Player 'A' only hits the middle of the clubface once in every 7-8 shots so he needs a particular model and flex of shaft ?

Player 'B' hits the middle of the clubface almost every time,so he can use any model and flex of shaft ?

Nah,i ain't buying it.

It would absolutely change the model of HEAD they need though, therefore a fit would change that. Neither aspect you relate would be part of a shaft fit would it? :rofl:

 

[Mungoscorner]

Mungo! Avert your eyes!

I think reality is not as clear cut as this, a set of stock clubs are never the WRONG clubs, just potentiallty not the most optimal.

Also with generally improving or variable swings no set of clubs is ever going to be the CORRECT set.

Iron shafts probably make marginal difference to SOME people (unless you have a body very different to the average person) but not the majority. Driver and wood shafts, which are usually graphite, benefit the majority if fitted.

Never EVER tell yourself you are playing with the wrong clubs, if they work for you then that is good enough, if you want to be confident they are more optimal (at the time of fitting) go get fitted!

Why would i avert my gaze,you have made some very valid points.
My problem with custom fitting,is quite simply the reasoning behind it (for the less than acomplished player).Custom fitting for the majority of golfers is not a "must".
I'm sick of listening to golfers at my club,and others,telling anybody who will listen,about there new all singing all dancing custom fitted Irons,Driver,3 wood.These are golfers (and i use the term loosely) that couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo,yet they've been custom fitted with the perfect set !!!!!