Loose impediment too big to move

[MashieNiblick]

Thank you all for responses. Very helpful.

Rulie, thanks for post #15 which is helpful in clarifying how equity applies in different scenarios. I am seeing the chap tomorrow and will show them to him.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

It wasn't wrong then.

And it isn't wrong now as clarified by D23-1/3:
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-23,d23-1-3

Yep, the rule is correct but it is 'morally' wrong. What about the first guy out with no crowds following him, he would have to chip sideways or take a drop. The rule should be changed so that only the player and/or caddie can move an object for the sake of fairness.

 

[atticusfinch]

Yep, the rule is correct but it is 'morally' wrong. What about the first guy out with no crowds following him, he would have to chip sideways or take a drop. The rule should be changed so that only the player and/or caddie can move an object for the sake of fairness.

Wouldn't that also require changing the rule that says LI may be removed by "any means?" Would it not then require a more detailed description of how various LI can be removed, EG allow towels to brush things aside? That would throw us back to the days when only hands could be used. Fairness? What seem to be minor changes for fairness may open some unintended gates.

 

[Colin L]

Yep, the rule is correct but it is 'morally' wrong. What about the first guy out with no crowds following him, he would have to chip sideways or take a drop. The rule should be changed so that only the player and/or caddie can move an object for the sake of fairness.

And would you also have a rule that dealt differently with searching for a ball depending on how many people you had the good luck to have available to help you?

 

[rulefan]

Yep, the rule is correct but it is 'morally' wrong. What about the first guy out with no crowds following him, he would have to chip sideways or take a drop. The rule should be changed so that only the player and/or caddie can move an object for the sake of fairness.

The rule was introduced over 50 years ago specifically for 'fairness'
An elderly lady was physically unable to move a large fallen bough of a tree on her own. However stronger men were able to and therefore got relief that she couldn't.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Wouldn't that also require changing the rule that says LI may be removed by "any means?" Would it not then require a more detailed description of how various LI can be removed, EG allow towels to brush things aside? That would throw us back to the days when only hands could be used. Fairness? What seem to be minor changes for fairness may open some unintended gates.

Change the rule from 'any means' to 'by player and/or caddie' or something similar?

 

[backwoodsman]

Wouldn't that also require changing the rule that says LI may be removed by "any means?" Would it not then require a more detailed description of how various LI can be removed, EG allow towels to brush things aside? That would throw us back to the days when only hands could be used. Fairness? What seem to be minor changes for fairness may open some unintended gates.

Change the rule from 'any means' to 'by player and/or caddie' or something similar?

As I got pulled up due to pedantry earlier in the thread, here's an opportunity not to be missed...

Can someone point out which rule is it that says loose impediments can be moved "by any means"? Because I don’t think you'll find those words in rule 23.

 

[Smiffy]

You just need a decent crowd to get it moved

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4lVCF8c5zk

It's a good job he didn't fat it 5 yards after all that.
I would have done.....

 

[rulefan]

Change the rule from 'any means' to 'by player and/or caddie' or something similar?

Acknowledging backwoodsman's point, that would still allow the player or caddie to use a forklift truck.
It would also give an advantage to a player with a caddie over one without.

 

[bobmac]

Acknowledging backwoodsman's point, that would still allow the player or caddie to use a forklift truck.

:rofl:

 

[rulefan]

Can someone point out which rule is it that says loose impediments can be moved "by any means"? Because I don’t think you'll find those words in rule 23.

Decision 23-1/1 uses them and of course a Decision is a Rule by definition

 

[backwoodsman]

Decision 23-1/1 uses them and of course a Decision is a Rule by definition

Smartarse...

Can I swap it for "which of the Rules of Golf..."

 

[atticusfinch]

Ok, point taken. But i was using it in the more colloquial sense - as shorthand for "one of those things that happens whilst out on the course which you have to take as is, like it or lump it, and get on with the game and play the ball as it lies unless you invoke a rule that allows you an alternative." There... I've typed it out now...

You may find this interesting. http://www.ruleshistory.com/rub.html

 

[backwoodsman]

You may find this interesting. http://www.ruleshistory.com/rub.html

Yes, have seen that before. But even so, as the piece itself acknowledges in the very first paragraph, the phrase does get used colloquially to mean general bad luck. Which is very apparent when one hears almost any converstion on a golf course or clubhouse.

 

[atticusfinch]

Yes, have seen that before. But even so, as the piece itself acknowledges in the very first paragraph, the phrase does get used colloquially to mean general bad luck. Which is very apparent when one hears almost any converstion on a golf course or clubhouse.

Personally, I choose not to perpetuate an error in the service of a colloquialism. We can acknowledge its existence then strive to eliminate it.

 

[backwoodsman]

Personally, I choose not to perpetuate an error in the service of a colloquialism. We can acknowledge its existence then strive to eliminate it.

Fair enough. I too try (generally)