Loft + Flex

[sandylc524]

Need some advice.

I am currently using a 10.5 X flex Rapture V2. I normally slice/fade this - 99/100, it will go right.

Today, while shopping for a new driver, the fitter told me to try out several demos of the Ping G400.

He asked me about what i use now and what my general ball flight is so I told him, he said "if you are always fading, then you should go to Stiff or Regular".

This is confusing for me. The reason I went from R to S to X is because I kept on fading - thinking that a softer shaft bends too much thus making the club head lag so it is open at impact.

True enough, when i tried the 10.5 R, balls were going straighter - but ball flight was too high.

They had me try the 9.0 and ball flight and direction were great! And the club felt so much lighter than my previous X shaft too.

Now I'm confused! All my life i played a 10.5 X, now they say I have to go 9.0 R!

Any feedback about this? Really confused.

 

[Imurg]

With the X flex you're not able to close the face enough to strike square, hence the slide/fade.
A softer shaft closes the face more to square up the strike.
Lighter stiff shafts can feel similar to heavier regular shafts - it's a question of finding the one that suits your swing

 

[sandylc524]

With the X flex you're not able to close the face enough to strike square, hence the slide/fade.
A softer shaft closes the face more to square up the strike.
Lighter stiff shafts can feel similar to heavier regular shafts - it's a question of finding the one that suits your swing

so a regular shaft will work better with a faster swing? the tracking equipment shows carry of 257 to 268 - my assumption is because of this distance, i swing "fast" - hence the need for a stiffer shaft.

But it seems the opposite is true - i actually needed a regular shaft.

 

[chrisd]

Add to the mix that there is little standardisation in shafts between different manufacterers. I've an M2 driver with a stiff shaft but it doesn't feel any stiffer than some regular ones I've owned

 

[sandylc524]

Add to the mix that there is little standardisation in shafts between different manufacterers. I've an M2 driver with a stiff shaft but it doesn't feel any stiffer than some regular ones I've owned

as if it's not confusing enough..... :-(

 

[ruff-driver]

Do you know what your swing speed is ?

IF you have the right flex you may need a shaft with a different kickpoint but that will only help if the club path itself is near to perfect, i've spent months searching for the right driver shaft , bleddy thousands to chose from and hardly any to test.

 

[sandylc524]

Do you know what your swing speed is ?

IF you have the right flex you may need a shaft with a different kickpoint but that will only help if the club path itself is near to perfect, i've spent months searching for the right driver shaft , bleddy thousands to chose from and hardly any to test.

i don't know swing speed - but from the test earlier, ball speed i recall is 150+.

Now there's kickpoint to consider as well??? I should just play pool. hahaha.

 

[ruff-driver]

i don't know swing speed - but from the test earlier, ball speed i recall is 150+.

Now there's kickpoint to consider as well??? I should just play pool. hahaha.

If you were middling them and getting 150 then you sound like your SS is around a 100, IMO that puts you in stiff shaft numbers not X, get on a monitor with some S flex , good luck :thup:

 

[Foxholer]

Need some advice.

I am currently using a 10.5 X flex Rapture V2. I normally slice/fade this - 99/100, it will go right.

Today, while shopping for a new driver, the fitter told me to try out several demos of the Ping G400.

He asked me about what i use now and what my general ball flight is so I told him, he said "if you are always fading, then you should go to Stiff or Regular".

This is confusing for me. The reason I went from R to S to X is because I kept on fading - thinking that a softer shaft bends too much thus making the club head lag so it is open at impact.

True enough, when i tried the 10.5 R, balls were going straighter - but ball flight was too high.

They had me try the 9.0 and ball flight and direction were great! And the club felt so much lighter than my previous X shaft too.

Now I'm confused! All my life i played a 10.5 X, now they say I have to go 9.0 R!

Any feedback about this? Really confused.

This is what a fitting achieves - the right shaft/head for your particular attributes!

It's a case of getting balance between Weight, Torque, Flex and Kick-point 'correct for you'!

It's the Torque and Kickpoint attributes that have most effect on how rapidly the face closes (for a given Flex/Weight and Manufacturer/shaft style!) High Kickpoint and face tends to stay open; High Torque value and face tends to stay open. But brain and hands may actually compensate (mine can't!!)

I know a Pro - with a 110-115 swing speed - who uses Regular shafts! He tends to hook anything stiffer!! It's just how his brain and hands work!

Rule of thumb is to use the softest flex shaft that you can control! That way you get optimise Distance against Dispersion! And if it comes down to a choice between shafts, then the un-measurable attribute of 'Feel preference' is the one to use!

 

[Imurg]

so a regular shaft will work better with a faster swing? the tracking equipment shows carry of 257 to 268 - my assumption is because of this distance, i swing "fast" - hence the need for a stiffer shaft.

But it seems the opposite is true - i actually needed a regular shaft.

There's more to it than swing speed alone.
If you have a fairly quick transition from backswing to downswing you'll need a stiffer or heavier shaft than if you have a smooth transition.
The timing of your release matters too..
It's a real minefield...
Use what works.

 

[Blue in Munich]

This is what a fitting achieves - the right shaft/head for your particular attributes!

It's a case of getting balance between Weight, Torque, Flex and Kick-point 'correct for you'!

It's the Torque and Kickpoint attributes that have most effect on how rapidly the face closes (for a given Flex/Weight and Manufacturer/shaft style!) High Kickpoint and face tends to stay open; High Torque value and face tends to stay open. But brain and hands may actually compensate (mine can't!!)

I know a Pro - with a 110-115 swing speed - who uses Regular shafts! He tends to hook anything stiffer!! It's just how his brain and hands work!

Rule of thumb is to use the softest flex shaft that you can control! That way you get optimise Distance against Dispersion! And if it comes down to a choice between shafts, then the un-measurable attribute of 'Feel preference' is the one to use!

Sums it up well, particularly about using the softest flex you can control.

As to using swing speed alone to shaft fit, I quite like the Titleist fitting mantra; It's not how fast you swing, it's how you swing fast……..

 

[sandylc524]

This is what a fitting achieves - the right shaft/head for your particular attributes!

It's a case of getting balance between Weight, Torque, Flex and Kick-point 'correct for you'!

It's the Torque and Kickpoint attributes that have most effect on how rapidly the face closes (for a given Flex/Weight and Manufacturer/shaft style!) High Kickpoint and face tends to stay open; High Torque value and face tends to stay open. But brain and hands may actually compensate (mine can't!!)

I know a Pro - with a 110-115 swing speed - who uses Regular shafts! He tends to hook anything stiffer!! It's just how his brain and hands work!

Rule of thumb is to use the softest flex shaft that you can control! That way you get optimise Distance against Dispersion! And if it comes down to a choice between shafts, then the un-measurable attribute of 'Feel preference' is the one to use!

use the softest you can control. OK - I like that.

I guess I do have to get over the "faster swing = stiffer shaft" that I've been buying into the whole time. Apparently, after much more research - swing tempo is also a key factor.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[the_coach]

Need some advice.

I am currently using a 10.5 X flex Rapture V2. I normally slice/fade this - 99/100, it will go right.

Today, while shopping for a new driver, the fitter told me to try out several demos of the Ping G400.

He asked me about what i use now and what my general ball flight is so I told him, he said "if you are always fading, then you should go to Stiff or Regular".

This is confusing for me. The reason I went from R to S to X is because I kept on fading - thinking that a softer shaft bends too much thus making the club head lag so it is open at impact.

True enough, when i tried the 10.5 R, balls were going straighter - but ball flight was too high.

They had me try the 9.0 and ball flight and direction were great! And the club felt so much lighter than my previous X shaft too.

Now I'm confused! All my life i played a 10.5 X, now they say I have to go 9.0 R!

Any feedback about this? Really confused.

what were the reasons for having "x flex" from the get-go how was that decision arrived at ?

 

[sandylc524]

what were the reasons for having "x flex" from the get-go how was that decision arrived at ?

I (mistakenly as it appears now) thought that in order to counter my tendency to fade/slice the ball, i should go to stiff - when that didn't work - I thought it wasn't stiff enough so I went to X.

Today I was told by the fitter that it's actually the other way around - he saw my ball flight pattern and said I should be using either stiff or even regular.

Which for me, is similar to one day waking up and being told that the Earth is actually flat.

 

[the_coach]

I (mistakenly as it appears now) thought that in order to counter my tendency to fade/slice the ball, i should go to stiff - when that didn't work - I thought it wasn't stiff enough so I went to X.

Today I was told by the fitter that it's actually the other way around - he saw my ball flight pattern and said I should be using either stiff or even regular.

Which for me, is similar to one day waking up and being told that the Earth is actually flat.

was just wondering if it had stemmed from an initial fitting sometime back

as 'fox' says a good marker would be to use the most flex but also the 'lightest shaft' that a player could swing & have the best launch conditions for speed/LA/spin rate/distance + accuracy

any shaft the split 100th of a second before strike & at impact is actually exhibiting 'lead lag deflection' (shaft bending towards target)

a 150mph + change ball speed has the club head speed at 100mph + change - which generally wouldn't place it in 'x flex' territory even if the transition move was pretty strong

generally a too stiff plus possibly also a tad heavier shaft for the swing motion would tend to leave the face angle 'open' also technique could add to that if the player has been working on trying to have 'lag' by dragging the handle towards target

a too stiff shaft for the swing motion would also not give the optimum launch angle so would tend to keep the trajectory low resulting in not getting the optimum distance for the swing effort put in

as to a too high flight - generally you need height to get distance
elite players peak height is around at least 90' to 100' & often times the longest are over 100'
difference is that peak height occurs towards the end of the balls travel

index players that have height too soon in the ball travel so not getting the forwards travel are largely doin that because of the strike location on the face not being at center - so it's the quality of the strike maybes too high off of the face along with a tad of a flip release which is giving too high 'dynamic loft' at strike so way too high initial launch angle - or some of that along with a strike location that's adding too much spin as a result of an issue with a negative angle of attack + too much dynamic loft at impact giving a high spin rate which takes the ball up not forwards

would spend a few bucks on a can of foot or dry shampoo spray
spray the face & look a what the strike pattern location on the face is

best answer before spending a bunch on new driver shaft or new driver would be to spend some money on having a lesson with a pro on a launch monitor so have some clarity on AoA/dynamic loft/spin rate/LA that's goin to help in making the best driver specification decision

would be wary of jumping into buying a driver at 9º (an adjustable that could then go to 10.5/11.0 then okay) whether reg or stiff - yep at first look someone who hits the ball 'too high' that would seem to be a sensible option - it could be - but my experience there's more index players that limit their ability to use a driver because the static loft is too low

generally the driver issues most folks have are more around technique that result in a negative angle of attack along with a strike pattern that's not at or close to center

 

[sandylc524]

was just wondering if it had stemmed from an initial fitting sometime back

as 'fox' says a good marker would be to use the most flex but also the 'lightest shaft' that a player could swing & have the best launch conditions for speed/LA/spin rate/distance + accuracy

any shaft the split 100th of a second before strike & at impact is actually exhibiting 'lead lag deflection' (shaft bending towards target)

a 150mph + change ball speed has the club head speed at 100mph + change - which generally wouldn't place it in 'x flex' territory even if the transition move was pretty strong

generally a too stiff plus possibly also a tad heavier shaft for the swing motion would tend to leave the face angle 'open' also technique could add to that if the player has been working on trying to have 'lag' by dragging the handle towards target

a too stiff shaft for the swing motion would also not give the optimum launch angle so would tend to keep the trajectory low resulting in not getting the optimum distance for the swing effort put in

as to a too high flight - generally you need height to get distance
elite players peak height is around at least 90' to 100' & often times the longest are over 100'
difference is that peak height occurs towards the end of the balls travel

index players that have height too soon in the ball travel so not getting the forwards travel are largely doin that because of the strike location on the face not being at center - so it's the quality of the strike maybes too high off of the face along with a tad of a flip release which is giving too high 'dynamic loft' at strike so way too high initial launch angle - or some of that along with a strike location that's adding too much spin as a result of an issue with a negative angle of attack + too much dynamic loft at impact giving a high spin rate which takes the ball up not forwards

would spend a few bucks on a can of foot or dry shampoo spray
spray the face & look a what the strike pattern location on the face is

best answer before spending a bunch on new driver shaft or new driver would be to spend some money on having a lesson with a pro on a launch monitor so have some clarity on AoA/dynamic loft/spin rate/LA that's goin to help in making the best driver specification decision

would be wary of jumping into buying a driver at 9º (an adjustable that could then go to 10.5/11.0 then okay) whether reg or stiff - yep at first look someone who hits the ball 'too high' that would seem to be a sensible option - it could be - but my experience there's more index players that limit their ability to use a driver because the static loft is too low

generally the driver issues most folks have are more around technique that result in a negative angle of attack along with a strike pattern that's not at or close to center

Need to go over that a few times in order to fully digest it.

But it seems a too stiff shaft does have a tendency to leave the club face open - i actually thought it was the opposite as the stiffer shaft will allow me to roll over my hands at impact without there being too much lag.

I really can't pull the trigger on the 9 deg driver (it's adjustable to 9.5 and 10.0 - the G400). But when i tested it earlier today, ball flight was quite good - penetrating and just the right height - as i see it (and when adjusted to 10, ball flight was really too high).

Thanks for the inputs.

 

[sandylc524]

Need to go over that a few times in order to fully digest it.

But it seems a too stiff shaft does have a tendency to leave the club face open - i actually thought it was the opposite as the stiffer shaft will allow me to roll over my hands at impact without there being too much lag.

I really can't pull the trigger on the 9 deg driver (it's adjustable to 9.5 and 10.0 - the G400). But when i tested it earlier today, ball flight was quite good - penetrating and just the right height - as i see it (and when adjusted to 10, ball flight was really too high).

Thanks for the inputs.

maybe it would be better for me to buy the 10.5 (adjustable to 9.5 and 11.5) instead of the 9 (adjustable to 8 and 10)?
Then get a stiff shaft (still an improvement from my x flex shaft now).