Local rule no1

[rulefan]

Hcap Secs response was that they contacted R & A last year and were advised this latter rule made them Non Q.

The R&A have no authority to say that.

However, given that CONGU Decision 1(c) says "as such a Local Rule is allowed by Rules of Golf ‘Appendix 1 Part B 4a." re an Embedded Ball Through the Green; I don't see why an equivalent Decision wouldn't apply to LCR "as such a Local Rule is allowed by Rules of Golf ‘Appendix 1 Part A 3c".

I am checking with CONGU.


NB The CONGU regulation is out of date as it is now Part A 3a

 

[Old Skier]

You might want to point out

http://www.congu.co.uk/qa/

and

https://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf/Appendices/Appendix-IPartA-Local-Rules/3-Course-Conditions

 

[rulefan]

I doubt that is true since the R&A are not involved in administering handicapping.

Quite so. But they usually express information possibly affecting handicapping by saying something like "It may affect the status of any handicap competition depending on the rules of your handicap authority'.

 

[oltimer]

Many thanks rulefan/old skier, it is 12 yrs since I was hcap sec and am trying to advise not interfere with current Secs, my old Book of Decisions is out dated but it does state - Appx 1 - local rules " lift, clean & replace anywhere thro the green " is this still a current rule because I can only find in pocket version reference to grass cut to fairway height" - again thanks for your support.

 

[rulefan]

Many thanks rulefan/old skier, it is 12 yrs since I was hcap sec and am trying to advise not interfere with current Secs, my old Book of Decisions is out dated but it does state - Appx 1 - local rules " lift, clean & replace anywhere thro the green " is this still a current rule because I can only find in pocket version reference to grass cut to fairway height" - again thanks for your support.

You'll find it here http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-14322

3 Course Conditions

c. Cleaning Ball

Conditions, such as extreme wetness causing significant amounts of mud to adhere to the ball, may be such that permission to lift, clean and replace the ball would be appropriate. In these circumstances, the following Local Rule is recommended:

"(Specify area, e.g., at the 6th hole, on a closely-mown area, anywhere through the green, etc.) a ball may be lifted and cleaned without penalty. The ball must be replaced.

Note: The position of the ball must be marked before it is lifted under this Local Rule - see Rule 20-1.

 

[oltimer]

perfect - many thanks

 

[oltimer]

You'll find it here http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-14322

3 Course Conditions

c. Cleaning Ball

Conditions, such as extreme wetness causing significant amounts of mud to adhere to the ball, may be such that permission to lift, clean and replace the ball would be appropriate. In these circumstances, the following Local Rule is recommended:

"(Specify area, e.g., at the 6th hole, on a closely-mown area, anywhere through the green, etc.) a ball may be lifted and cleaned without penalty. The ball must be replaced.

Note: The position of the ball must be marked before it is lifted under this Local Rule - see Rule 20-1.

The info I now have says that implementing Lift Clean & replace renders the Comp a Non Qualifier.

 

[rulefan]

The info I now have says that implementing Lift Clean & replace renders the Comp a Non Qualifier.

Where did you get that info? It is not in the CONGU Manual.
Does your source mention Through the Green or Closely Mown Areas?

 

[oltimer]

I find it odd that a rule applied as written in the Rule Book could on its own render a comp a non-qualifier.
Source - County Union + EG -

 

[duncan mackie]

I find it odd that a rule applied as written in the Rule Book could on its own render a comp a non-qualifier.
Source - County Union + EG -

I also find it extremely odd, and very concerning because of the underlying principle as referenced more than once in the manual.

This would now seem to mean that clubs will have to get every LR that they have in place that isn't specifically covered in the manual checked and approved by CONGU; surely they can't be serious?

 

[rulefan]

I find it odd that a rule applied as written in the Rule Book could on its own render a comp a non-qualifier.
Source - County Union + EG -

You have me confused.

Which Local Rule have you been told renders a comp a non qualifier? Can you copy the statement from the County/EG


Lift, Clean & Replace does not render any comp a non qualifier. The CONGU Regulations make no mention of it.

Preferred Lies ie Lift, Clean & Place (Closely Mown) only renders a comp non qualifying if outside the defined season or not approved by the County Union.

Lift, Clean & Place (Through the Green) always renders a comp non qualifying

 

[duncan mackie]

You have me confused.

Which Local Rule have you been told renders a comp a non qualifier? Can you copy the statement from the County/EG


Lift, Clean & Replace does not render any comp a non qualifier. The CONGU Regulations make no mention of it.

Preferred Lies ie Lift, Clean & Place (Closely Mown) only renders a comp non qualifying if outside the defined season or not approved by the County Union.

Lift, Clean & Place (Through the Green) always renders a comp non qualifying

The statement was that LC&R was confirmed by the local golf union and EG to render a competition non Q.

Nothing really confusing about that - other than disagreement and disbelief :thup:

 

[oltimer]

we have rec`d letters stating that with a Local Rule for Lift, Clean & Replace in force the comps are non Q`s.
I have seen them (but only briefly)and as soon as I receive a copy will advise the exact text as written. all other requirements to maintain Qualifying Status are correct but it seems that LCR makes then None/Q. It would be nice to see what the Congu`s views are but unable to get thro to them

 

[rulefan]

I am awaiting clarification from EG.

 

[oltimer]

The wording was "The application of the Lift, Clean & Replace Rule renders the Comps Non Qualifying"

One can play off a perfect lie on a Mat - and may have to move it several yards to find a lie flat enough to stop the ball rolling off it and the comp still be qualifying. yet removing mud and playing from the lie given is unacceptable.

makes no sense.

 

[rulefan]

"The application of the Lift, Clean & Replace Rule renders the Comps Non Qualifying"

.

Sorry for the delay. I have been away.

I have now had it confirmed categorically by the Handicapping Manager of England golf that the above is not correct.
No one at EG knows where such information may have come from but it is wrong.

 

[duncan mackie]

Sorry for the delay. I have been away.

I have now had it confirmed categorically by the Handicapping Manager of England golf that the above is not correct.
No one at EG knows where such information may have come from but it is wrong.

Thanks for taking the time

 

[KenL]

The wording was "The application of the Lift, Clean & Replace Rule renders the Comps Non Qualifying"

One can play off a perfect lie on a Mat - and may have to move it several yards to find a lie flat enough to stop the ball rolling off it and the comp still be qualifying. yet removing mud and playing from the lie given is unacceptable.

makes no sense.

Perhaps the difference is that the mat rule is only allowed on closely mown areas not through the green. I.e. semi-rough and rough.

 

[duncan mackie]

Perhaps the difference is that the mat rule is only allowed on closely mown areas not through the green. I.e. semi-rough and rough.

As posted in #36 Above the difference is that there was a misunderstanding somewhere along the line...ie what didn't make sense was in error.

 

[Colin L]

Sorry for the delay. I have been away.

I have now had it confirmed categorically by the Handicapping Manager of England golf that the above is not correct.
No one at EG knows where such information may have come from but it is wrong.

Thanks for sorting that out.