Lies, Damned Lies and....Statistics

[Imurg]

Now I'm quite prepared to get flamed with this but here goes anyway.

While it can be a good idea to keep an eye on your statistics - like GIR, Fairways hit, putts etc - putting too much emphasis on them can create confusion. And I reckon we all think too much about this game anyway!

At the level most of us are at, we have inconsistencies in our game, our swing and ultimately our score. Play 1 round today and score nett 72 with 9 Fairways hit, 3 GIR and 28 putts. Play tomorrow and shoot nett 72 with 3 Fairways hit, 12 GIR and 38 putts.

Now - what do you ned to work on????

I know this is a simplistic example but it illustrates what I am trying to get across. Both days you've shot nett par but done it in totally different ways. If the inconsistencies are like this then you need to work on your whole game rather than focus on certain aspects of it.

The stats can show up deficiencies. If you always take 40 putts then you know what you've got to do. But without analysing them you might be wasting your time. Why are you taking 40 putts? Is it because you 3 putt most greens because you leave your 1st well short? Or is your problem that your iron play doesn't leave you close enough to the pin and you are in 3-putt territory all the time? Why does your approach leave you 50 feet from the pin? Is it because you area a short hitter or do you miss fairways - or both?

So the reason you take 40 putts could be that you hit the green in regulation but leave yourself miles from the hole - so you work on the irons and not on the putting. Or you may hit short leaving more pressure on your irons so you work on distance instead.

Conclusion?
Analyse.
Just because you take 40 putts doesn't necessarily mean you are a bad putter.

 

[Macster]

But surely if anyone is going to keep stats, they are doing it because they want to analyse where they should be working on ?

 

[haplesshacker]

Imurg.

It's well known that I keep my stats on Scoresaver2. But using your example above, you have to know your own game, and have an analytical mind. As forum member SS2 has said in the past. Don't take the figures in isolation.

Your GIRs may increase and because you're left with longer putts your putts may increase. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out. Personally I don't worry to much about gross GIR as at my h'cap of 26, I have a shot or two inhand anyway. What I am concentrating on is the getting up and down.

The reason I generally keep stats is to see if I'm actually getting better or worse. Yes I can get a feel for it, but I like the number crunching of something like SS2.

So sorry if it's not the flaming you were expecting, being that I'm in the keep stats camp! But I really can't get 'worked up' about it. Each to their own. Live and let live.

 

[Imurg]

But surely if anyone is going to keep stats, they are doing it because they want to analyse where they should be working on ?

My point is that they have to analyse correctly. Why are you taking 40 putts - what's the real reason.

 

[Andy]

Cuase you couldn't hit s cow on the arse with a banjo with the short stick.

Andy

 

[Herbie]

Brilliant post Imurg. It all boils down to how something is analysed. With golf stats, people think too much and put too much faith in statistics rather than just practicing golf as a whole. And in most cases a golfer should be able to pinpoint their weeknesses as they play not by looking at stats. If you obtain the stats you could still be wrong on your assumptions which is well pointed out by Imurg.

Personally I never believe stats no matter where they are from or who collated them, they are a tool in life unfortunately and no doubt contributed heavily to the curent finacial climate we all face, I tend to believe in what is or what isn't and sometimes believe in people anyone who follows the gospel according to St Statistic will be wrong more often than right.

 

[golf_bug]

I have to disagree with the post. I have recently started keeping stats and it is obvious that the weak part of my game is putting (I have just posted a plea for help in the Ask the Experts section!). 40 putts is not uncommon for me, yet I regularly hit fairways and greens in regulation. Yes some putts will be monsters and I would be happy to get down in 3. But if you are regularly just making the front of the green and leaving yourself 40 footers, then maybe you shouldn't enter it as a GIR hit?
Stats only analyse the info you put in and they are for no ones benefit other than your own. I find them useful, but if you don't, don't use them.

 

[Imurg]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that they shouldn't be used, just analysed fully.
And if you are only making the green by 1 inch then its a GIR isn't it?

How far away are you 3-putting from?
And is it pace or line that's the issue - or even both!!??
This bit should really be in the other thread!! Ooops

 

[golf_bug]

Imurg I have continued this on the other post

 

[rgs]

A more telling stat is the total length of putts made.
Pros seek to make 100 feet of putts which may be a better stat to look at.

If your three putts end with a 1 foot tap in on every hole that equates to 18 feet of putts only.

 

[RGDave]

I don't keep stats on a PC, but I know what's going on and things like putts and F/W and GIR are normaly scribbled over my card....if my card is handed in, I fill in a fresh one.
For example, two weeks ago I played an Open Q'ying course and recorded a horrible gross 89 (+17).
I hit 11/15 fairways, had 34 putts and only hit 3 greens.
My missed F/W cost me 4 double-bogeys and I couldn't hit greens with my 2nd shots....

I know from my games recently that I've missed greens left with pulls and right with slices.....I'm now on a mission to sort this out!!!!

Cue, a lesson.....and an anorak-y post about it!!!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I disagree. For the four rounds I've recorded data for this year I'm averaging 34.75 putts per round against 33.46 for the whole of last year. This tells me my putting is not a good as last year. By drilling deeper I can see I am averaging 2.38 putts per green when I hit it regulation and 1.8 putts per green when I miss in regulation (2.07 for GIR and 1.79 when GIR missed last year).

So what is this telling me. In simple terms I'm not getting close enough with my approach shots to give myself putts from a distance I can make regularly. This for me would be around ten foot where I would feel confident on getting say 40% (not great but better than average for my handicap). It also tells me that my scrambling is pretty good as I take on average less than three (a chip plus 1.8 putts) to get up and down.

The conclusion. More work on my 7, 8 and 9 irons to get inside that 10 foot circle. More work on the 10-15 foot putts and more work on my chipping and putting to try and get an average as close to 2.0 for scrambling (chip and a putt). I already hit 22% of GIR this season which is above my handicap expectation (25% for 2008) so accuracy isn't the issue

It really does make a difference using statistics. It gives me a realistic feel for my game over a given period and without having to resort to anorak status I can get a real idea of the parts of my game that is struggling.

I think those that shy away from using information easily collated and used or those that scoff at those who keep statistics are missing a trick. Apart from anything else SS2 also gives me a breakdown of eight key features so my coach can look back at my progression and tailor my lessons accordingly. No lies, no mystery, just another tool in my armoury on my quest to improve.

 

[USER1999]

Holy crap. This is way above my head. I just whack it, run after it and whack it again. The only stat I keep is the score. Way too much info here for me to take in.

I do keep stats on lost balls per round. Today = none, yesterday = none. My sort of stat. Perfect.

 

[fastmover2]

For the four rounds I've recorded data for this year I'm averaging 34.75 putts per round against 33.46 for the whole of last year. This tells me my putting is not a good as last year.

If it was me I would not be thinking that I was putting poorly compared to last year on what is a very limited statistical sample. It is early in the season and the ball will not be rolling all that well yet on early season greens I would have thought. I reckon that in real terms (although you probably would not agree)and not just going by the numbers you are probably putting better than last year.

An example of where statistics are helpful but a lot of other factors need to be taken into account before a complete judgemant can be made.

 

[Cernunnos]

Putting is certainly half the game. If we threeputt from 30 feet or 30 yards then its understandable getting a three-putt, though the aim with the first is to get close enough not to need a third. However, if we make 3 wiggles from 6ft then we would have a problem.

Its a subject Bobmac has touched on in another thread & although I had minor issues, I did agree with his point.

Statistics are all well & good, but no matter how many fairways we hit or greens in regulation, if we can't score, then what's the point. For instance We could duff a teeshot & be in the fairway, albeit a long way from the hole, or we could get a cracking drive in a good position for the next shot & yet not on the fairway.

If our second shot lands 4 foot from the pin, but in the fringe its a green missed & yet we could hit the same green, but on a different level & 30 yards away but have made GIR.

So yes there are Lies, Damn lies & statistics.

That said I still think it is still useful to record stats, but also note down problems during a round, that pushed drive, how many duffed shots. How many putts we miss when we should have made & how many putts me misshit, missjudged, missread break or pace.

I know when I'm playing on my own I note down on the card what clubs I take, which shots I duff & not only fairways hit, but farways barely missed, but when drives are not going where I want them. I note whether left, right, front, or back of green & then distances left before each putt I need to take, as well as the usual Fairways Greens hit & bunkers visited. Very little of this I can actually transfer to a stats book. But it makes interesting reading after a round to realise when I've been repeating an error.

 

[Herbie]

I dont understand some of this??? do some of you wait a full year for stats to tell yourselves you didnt putt as well as the year before?

When I play a serious game of golf, comp or challenge or when I play a determined practice round with a clear objective, I know when my putting isnt as good as it should be just playing the game, so I practice that area and others as soon as possible.In any game I take seriously I have a very good putting standard (which I hope will improve following Bobs pointers) I simply do not need a record to tell me if my putting is good or bad or in between, so Im not sure I see much benefit in records in this area unless perhaps with players who have an exceptional consistancy method of putting which produces the higher standards of putting.

 

[Cernunnos]

Of course we all know when we are doing something wrong or right, or someting in the game needs work etc.

The main idea of stats, is its suposed to give feedback across the weeks, months, years. as well as an instant indication of an imidiate weekness or strength.

Thing is stats don't tell the whole truth & even without stats I really think most players can account for where improvements are being made in our golf & where perhaps we may be faltering.

 

[TonyN]

I think some of you are missing the point of this thread. The O.P isn't saying stats are a waste of time, he's just saying they need to be broken down in the right way.

Homer, I might be wrong but you say your putts are worse but it's not a direct result of poor putting rather it is your approach play. That is what OP said, don't get sucked into thinking it's something because it may not be.

I only collate stats in my head. There is a long par 4 at my place that I struggle to hit with my second because it has to be a flushed 3 wood to reach and I only flush them when the ball sits up nicely in a bit of 1st cut or short rough. So I always aim to miss the fairway left. If I do I am happy but it means I have missed a FIR so bad fir stats??? Not really, it means I have hit my target. In this case if I hit the fairway I have had a drive I am not happy with although the stats would disagree.

Great post.

 

[Cernunnos]

Funny... I was backing up the OP.

 

[DCB]

I think Tony has made an interesting point about how he manages his round.
"There is a long par 4 at my place that I struggle to hit with my second because it has to be a flushed 3 wood to reach and I only flush them when the ball sits up nicely in a bit of 1st cut or short rough. So I always aim to miss the fairway left. "

Part of playing a good round is about effective course management. Learning where to put the ball when you can't hit the green is an important part of that.