Let battle commence! PGA V R&A and USGA

Andy808

Andy808

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With the deadline looming on the anchoring debate on it's way the PGA have shown their intent not to ban it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/21569070

[h=1]No overriding reason to ban putter anchoring - PGA Tour bosses[/h]
The PGA Tour says there is "no overriding reason" to support the controversial proposals to ban putter anchoring.
Ruling bodies Royal & Ancient Club and US Golf Association want to limit the use of belly and broom-handle putters.
"We have to look if anchoring is good, bad or indifferent for the game and we have concluded it's not been negative," said PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem
Click to expand...

This is going to get messy and give the PGA the reason they want to split from the USGA and the R&A.
 
Is there going to be a war!

I saw the interview with Tim Fincham of the PGA of America, he made it clear that the rule makers were looking for input about the ban and nothing is cast in stone about a ban. I think that they will not proceed with a ban if they accept Finchams views.

He reckoned that there was no advantage to be gained by anchoring

That it would lose a lot of amateur players who would give up

That its too late and if it was to have been banned it should've been in 1975 or 80

He said that 13 of the 15 pro representatives on the board voted in favour of keeping the long putter when the reasons for not banning them were explained


Methinks they will do a uturn on this in the months to come!
 
chrisd said:
Is there going to be a war!

I saw the interview with Tim Fincham of the PGA of America, he made it clear that the rule makers were looking for input about the ban and nothing is cast in stone about a ban. I think that they will not proceed with a ban if they accept Finchams views.

He reckoned that there was no advantage to be gained by anchoring
Then a ban would be fine too
That it would lose a lot of amateur players who would give up
Rubbish imo
That its too late and if it was to have been banned it should've been in 1975 or 80
Disagree that it's too late. But agree that it should have been done earlier. We are where we are though!
He said that 13 of the 15 pro representatives on the board voted in favour of keeping the long putter when the reasons for not banning them were explained
That's understandable, as some would have to change


Methinks they will do a uturn on this in the months to come!
Click to expand...

Personally, I think the delayed ban is the correct way to go.
 
How many amateurs really use the long putter, and would they really give up golf?

Or is finchem talking about elite amateurs, who mainly do now use long putters? If so, they are young enough to change, and they aren't about to give up on the potential to earn millions, just because of a rule change.

Finchem is an idiot.
 
I think they should u-turn and forget the ban.

There is no evidence that a belly putter player has an advantage over a player using a regular putter. Look at the stats for top 20 putters on tour last year and I'd wager there's not a belly amongst them.

How many tournaments won by a belly/long putter compared to standard length on tour season on season. If they were such a huge advantage all the games best would use them but they don't, queue someone saying they don't need to as they are good putters without them! But that's the point isn't it, they choose not to because they have a choice. So why complain when others take up a choice they also had.

As for not in the spirit of the game well they had the chance to ban the long stick when they first appeared in the game and if they had no-one would have batted an eyelid but now they choose to do it years down the line simply because someone won the Open an US Open with one and claiming they had an advantage is a joke. Why had no one won a major prior to Braddely then with one if such a huge advantage.

Then there's the wording of it which is ludicrous the likes of Simpson, Els, Clarke and other users of varying long wand are basically told they can't putt how they do now because its anchoring, yet Kuchar can use one the way he does which is effectively still anchored of sorts to his forearm is ok!

Then the other key factor say they proceed with ban and Bifurcation comes in as the PGA Tour reject the ban, the Euro tour accept it so what happens in co-sanctioned events! Whose rules are played to then, not to mention the majors. Players could spend a whole season using a belly putter under bifurcation rules but then at the biggest events at golfs table they aren't allowed to as its outside the laws of the game! Because those events are governed by the games ruling bodies and Augusta have also said they'll side with USGA.

It's farcical, don't often agree with Finchem but I'm against the ban as I can't see a legitimate reason for the ban based of the reasons given. Should have been done years ago but now its far to late.


Prepare for Golf War3
 
Doon frae Troon said:
In recent years I know of only one club golfer who used a long putter.
Are there many at your club?
Click to expand...

I know 4 from my old club that use them, also seen a couple in play at my new club. Plus I own one myself and they're not as easy to wield as is commonly thought.

I've actually since cut mine down to 34inch to make it standard length but the heavier head now is superb. But I reckon there's a lot more using them now as they're a lot more available to buy.
 
I saw the interview and isn't Finchem missing the point?

It's nothing to do with having an advantage or not, is it not just in line with the definition of "a stroke" (oo-er) in the rules?

May be the case in the states that a larger proportion of amatuers use the longer putters but I have only come across one person round my way using one in the last 3 years so the argument about losing players doesn't seem to fit either, to me.
 
If there is no advantage gained then why do you need them? I've read a lot of comments from players about this, many saying it isn't fair for the guys who have been using long putters since high school as they have "always" used them but this is nonsense. I can almost guarantee that every player who now uses a long putter started with a standard putter. At some point all of them have had an issue with putting, maybe pace, maybe accuracy, maybe mental, and they have decided to move to the long putter which has helped them get over whatever problem they had. The only reason anyone would go to a long putter is because they weren't good enough with a standard one - there can be no other reason and that being the case, long putters are making people better putters. They aren't making them any better than anyone else, they are just making them themselves better and therin, for me anyway, lies the issue. It isn't about whether long putters give someone an advantage over the rest of the field, they don't, they just allow players to compete at a level they couldn't do without the long putter and that is why they are wrong.
 
My take on this is, and always has been, the way the "stroke" is made.
Every other shot played in this game is played with the hand(s) being the only part of the body to touch the club.
Why should putting be any different?

As to there being no advantage to anchoring, why is it that Adam Scott is now back in the Top 10 in the World Rankings?
When he used a normal putter he was, at best, average. Now he's in the top 10....
Has anyone ever got worse by anchoring? Yes, many have tried it and not putted as well and have reverted to the shorter length putter. So it doesn't work for everyone - I'll give you that one.
But for those that it does work, haven't they gained an advantage in their game? Not necessarily an advantage over everyone else as such but definitely an advantage for themselves and Adam Scott is the perfect example.

To say that anchoring gives players a chance to regain their playing powers is insane.
Why should anyone be given more chances? In any Sport, is giving a lesser player a different way to do something just so they can continue to compete a valid argument? Give me a break.
Are Snooker players allowed a brace to keep their trailing arm at the right angle? Are High Jumpers allowed spring-heels? Are lesser cyclists allowed a small electric motor to help them keep up? Are slow Strikers allowed to break the offside rule to get ahead of a faster defender? Does Mo have to run a little slower to let others catch up?

So why does Golf have to allow Players that can't putt with just 2 hands on the club the chance to do it differently?

By going to the long putter, a golfer is stating that they can't putt as well with the short stick - my answer to that is "Too bad - go practice".

I've had a few swings with long putters and it feels completely alien, it must to virtually everyone the first time they pick one up as it's completely different to any golf shot played before. If I used the amount of time it would need to become a competent anchoring putter practicing with a normal length one I'd be holing everything from everywhere.

The Anchoring Ban is good for the game and it's irrelevent as to the timing. Yes it could and probably should have been done long ago.
Doesn't stop it being right now.
 
I for one don't think this will be fun (as in an amusing whim where I am not interested in the outcome).

The PGA flexing it's muscles is yet another "money versus amateur game" power struggle, but more important than for example premier league forerunners since this game has been owned by the everyday people for more than 500 years.

However I fear the result may be the same, that there is an increased gap between amateur fans and players and the very top players. Whilst there always was a gap, playing the same courses, the same way, with the same equipment under the same amatuer rules all grounded in theory by the handicap system to give everyone the same chance on the first tee is the noble spirit of our game.

I hope the R&A don't withdraw the suggestion and play lap dog to the money men. I hope they fight this one out and win (if at the turn of the last century the money men threatened to take control of the game there would have been uproar as they would have been aristocracy, just because they are now media driven and two US starlets Bradley and Simpson use these implements should we be any the less outraged ?)

Whilst I sympathise with people who have had the yips, the long putter does not really keep many in the game (we have only one user in our club) and as a test of nerve and skill we should keep it simple - golf is a sport played with a club in hands and no other part of the body should be allowed to interfere with an honest stroke.
 
HawkeyeMS said:
If there is no advantage gained then why do you need them? I've read a lot of comments from players about this, many saying it isn't fair for the guys who have been using long putters since high school as they have "always" used them but this is nonsense. I can almost guarantee that every player who now uses a long putter started with a standard putter. At some point all of them have had an issue with putting, maybe pace, maybe accuracy, maybe mental, and they have decided to move to the long putter which has helped them get over whatever problem they had. The only reason anyone would go to a long putter is because they weren't good enough with a standard one - there can be no other reason and that being the case, long putters are making people better putters. They aren't making them any better than anyone else, they are just making them themselves better and therin, for me anyway, lies the issue. It isn't about whether long putters give someone an advantage over the rest of the field, they don't, they just allow players to compete at a level they couldn't do without the long putter and that is why they are wrong.
Click to expand...

Hits the nail on the head!

:thup: :thup:

I'm interested in knowing how keen the USGA are on the change. If they've just been "talked into it" by the R&A they will no doubt cave in the face of opposition from the PGA.
 
Aside from the sheer ugliness and inelegance, I don't have a problem with anchoring.

It's open to everyone to do, if they wish.

If it is banned, I think people should be given bags of time (at least a year) to make the switch. Whatever your take on anchoring, some people have been doing it forever, and it's not their fault the powers-that-be are having a change of heart.

It's people's livelihoods on the line here, so this needs to be done with extreme care and good sense.

And if we're talking about alien things that make the game 'easier', maybe start with drivers that are the size of frying pans (like the one I use!).
 
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