Lessons! Post here your thoughts.

[Wabinez]

The closed mind nature of a few people to lessons on here is outstanding. How anyone can say a pro will offer nothing is mind blowing.

The key is a good coach. I started the game 8 years ago, and had no idea hw to swing a club. Within 4 years of lessons and practice, I was down to single figures and have stayed there since. I would not have been able to do this without lessons.

This Sunday, I start my winter series of lessons, to aim to get me deep into cat 1 status rather than lurking on the edge and occasionally dipping my toe in. Can’t wait to get started

 

[Orikoru]

Why do you have this fear , as you say. When you go for a lesson its entirely what you want to work on. A lesson doesn't necessarily mean that your swing will be ripped apart and start again. Its your choice not the Pro.
Just a suggestion, as a high handicapper yourself, as I am, there must be something in your game that a decent Pro can help you with. Short game - pitching and chipping - bunker play - irons off the tee and putting. Improve on these and you'll get down to 18 in no time.

Try it, I bet you'll say I wish I'd taken lessons years ago!

I have considered just getting one lesson and just kind of asking 'do you think I'm doing anything obviously wrong' just to see if any quick improvements can be made. But as I mentioned originally, but other point of contention is how do you separate the good pros from the bad? All I'd be doing is going to a convenient golfing location and hoping the pro there is decent. And if I choose wrongly the lesson is waste of money and time.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I have considered just getting one lesson and just kind of asking 'do you think I'm doing anything obviously wrong' just to see if any quick improvements can be made. But as I mentioned originally, but other point of contention is how do you separate the good pros from the bad? All I'd be doing is going to a convenient golfing location and hoping the pro there is decent. And if I choose wrongly the lesson is waste of money and time.

Mate, first off I wouldn’t just book a lesson to ask the question you put above.
Second, ask a few mates if they’ve used anyone local and what they think.
Third, go with a plan, ie, just book a specific lesson, ie, tell the Pro you want help with getting out of bunkers or pitching around the green etc.
Finally, then judge for yourself, did you benefit from the lesson.

I had the shanks in the summer and must of received 20-30 different tips how to cure it from well intended mates, some tips totally 180 degrees from each other.
Got confused, booked a lesson purely to look at why, 25 minutes into lesson I was sorted.
Not had them since, but if the odd one happens again I’m confident I’ve got the advice on what I’m doing wrong and how to fix it.

 

[Orikoru]

Mate, first off I wouldn’t just book a lesson to ask the question you put above.
Second, ask a few mates if they’ve used anyone local and what they think.
Third, go with a plan, ie, just book a specific lesson, ie, tell the Pro you want help with getting out of bunkers or pitching around the green etc.
Finally, then judge for yourself, did you benefit from the lesson.

I had the shanks in the summer and must of received 20-30 different tips how to cure it from well intended mates, some tips totally 180 degrees from each other.
Got confused, booked a lesson purely to look at why, 25 minutes into lesson I was sorted.
Not had them since, but if the odd one happens again I’m confident I’ve got the advice on what I’m doing wrong and how to fix it.

I'm not sure I have a clear problem to identify though. Or if I do I'm not sure what it is. Like a lot of players I can hit any shot well on the day, it's just about consistency really. Many aspects of my game are sometimes great, sometimes bad. I suppose what is least consistent is the long second shot, so maybe that. I might look into it this winter.

Only one of my usual four-ball has actually had lessons, and I'm not convinced he gained a lot of benefit out of it really. He's actually improved more since he stopped having them (although could be that the changes took time to bed in of course). He told me about his lessons and the pro didn't sound that convincing to me.

 

[Garush34]

I have considered just getting one lesson and just kind of asking 'do you think I'm doing anything obviously wrong' just to see if any quick improvements can be made. But as I mentioned originally, but other point of contention is how do you separate the good pros from the bad? All I'd be doing is going to a convenient golfing location and hoping the pro there is decent. And if I choose wrongly the lesson is waste of money and time.

It's a case of asking around to find out what pros are like. Ask your friends, players at the club or even the pro themselves. Any good pro will take the time before booking a lesson to discuss things and maybe address some of your fears.

I'm not sure I have a clear problem to identify though. Or if I do I'm not sure what it is. Like a lot of players I can hit any shot well on the day, it's just about consistency really. Many aspects of my game are sometimes great, sometimes bad. I suppose what is least consistent is the long second shot, so maybe that. I might look into it this winter.

Only one of my usual four-ball has actually had lessons, and I'm not convinced he gained a lot of benefit out of it really. He's actually improved more since he stopped having them (although could be that the changes took time to bed in of course). He told me about his lessons and the pro didn't sound that convincing to me.

As a fellow high handicapper there must be something holding you back, for you to say you have no clear problem I would say is foolish. There is obviously a reason that you play off the handicap you do. There could be a move that is leading to your inconsistency that you have not considered because you are not trained to see the faults. A pro would be able to make suggestions to improve your swing, at the end of the day if you don't agree with them you can always just ignore the information given and go back to what you do now.

 

[Curls]

Did you have good teachers and rubbish teachers in school? Did you learn more from the good ones?

Golf is no different imo, there are great teachers and poor ones, your ability and willingness to learn is a different matter. If you can afford it why not have a 9 hole playing lesson with the pro? A good one will evaluate your strengths, weaknesses and suggest a way to improve. It might be putting lessons, strategy changes or getting the best out of your swing, if that’s what you want.

But no one can make a silk purse of a sows ear and if you have fundamental flaws that are holding you back you have to choose whether to play with them in the knowledge you’ll hit a wall (if you haven’t already) or change them. The former is a good choice if you’re time-poor and just want to enjoy a knock. The latter does not come without some pain, that’s life, if it’s worth achieving it isn’t easy. That’s golf!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I'm not sure I have a clear problem to identify though. Or if I do I'm not sure what it is. Like a lot of players I can hit any shot well on the day, it's just about consistency really. Many aspects of my game are sometimes great, sometimes bad. I suppose what is least consistent is the long second shot, so maybe that. I might look into it this winter.

Only one of my usual four-ball has actually had lessons, and I'm not convinced he gained a lot of benefit out of it really. He's actually improved more since he stopped having them (although could be that the changes took time to bed in of course). He told me about his lessons and the pro didn't sound that convincing to me.

That’s good then if you don’t have a clear problem, but you don’t only go to a Pro for a problem.
You play football, surely while you’ve been playing you’ve had coaches suggest something to you to improve you, sometimes a lesson can be to improve and strengthen a weakness rather than simply problem solve.

 

[IanM]

Couple of thoughts...
- much depends on what you want from your golf (as others have said) but also it depends on your "prefered learning style." Some people learn best from a coach, others from reading/video and so on... also finding a Pro who relays information in a way best suited to you is important. Good pros can tailor their approach to the player

I am reminded an annecdote about Ian Bolt, a good old pro from Anstruther, who has been in Wiltshire for much of his working like... as relayed to me by the 3 handicap player he was teaching.... "Went for a lesson with Bolty to see how he operated.... He asked me to hit a few 7 irons, and I hit a series of the sweetest irons I ever have. I turned to him, awaiting his approval." He thought for a moment and said, "Aye, I can see where your going wrong!" "Pardon?" was the reply... "Well," said Ian, "do you want to be scratch or not?"

 

[Orikoru]

It's a case of asking around to find out what pros are like. Ask your friends, players at the club or even the pro themselves. Any good pro will take the time before booking a lesson to discuss things and maybe address some of your fears.



As a fellow high handicapper there must be something holding you back, for you to say you have no clear problem I would say is foolish. There is obviously a reason that you play off the handicap you do. There could be a move that is leading to your inconsistency that you have not considered because you are not trained to see the faults. A pro would be able to make suggestions to improve your swing, at the end of the day if you don't agree with them you can always just ignore the information given and go back to what you do now.

That's what I said in the first place! I don't know what the fault is so I'd have to just demonstrate my swing to a pro and let him figure it out. Then PaulDJ said that wasn't the way to go and that I should tell him what I want to work on. We're going round in circles. I just meant exactly that, that I wouldn't be able to identify a problem myself, it's not clear and obvious to me.

 

[Orikoru]

That’s good then if you don’t have a clear problem, but you don’t only go to a Pro for a problem.
You play football, surely while you’ve been playing you’ve had coaches suggest something to you to improve you, sometimes a lesson can be to improve and strengthen a weakness rather than simply problem solve.

Sorry, I've never played football at a level where we have coaches, haha. But yeah, I get it. As someone touched upon above, I think a potentially useful thing for me would be to have a playing lesson, where a pro accompanies me around 9 holes, then I think he would be able to identify where improvement can be made.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

That's what I said in the first place! I don't know what the fault is so I'd have to just demonstrate my swing to a pro and let him figure it out. Then PaulDJ said that wasn't the way to go and that I should tell him what I want to work on. We're going round in circles. I just meant exactly that, that I wouldn't be able to identify a problem myself, it's not clear and obvious to me.

Wasn’t telling what to do, you’re an adult.
You’d said you didn’t want wholesale changes and it ruining the game for you, what I suggested is “dipping your toe in the water” have a simple directed lesson and it might remove some of your worries about having lessons.
Its your money mate, I’m sure you don’t want to waste it.

 

[howbow88]

This is a really interesting thread. Another thing though - one person's good coach, is another person's bad coach. Or not even bad, just not right for some people and better for others.

As with the example I posted earlier, my mate went to a guy with a great reputation. Spent hours and lots of dosh on him, and got worse. One lesson with a bloke who I don't think is the best, based on my experiences with him, and my mate broke 100 for the first time in years.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

There’s also the story (urban myth) about one of the “top” coaches in the UK who wasn’t happy coaching anymore so he raised his prices astrononmically from £15.00ph to £100.00ph in the expectation that bookings would drop.
It actually had the reverse effect and people went to him in the belief that if he charged that much he must be good.

 

[Garush34]

That's what I said in the first place! I don't know what the fault is so I'd have to just demonstrate my swing to a pro and let him figure it out. Then PaulDJ said that wasn't the way to go and that I should tell him what I want to work on. We're going round in circles. I just meant exactly that, that I wouldn't be able to identify a problem myself, it's not clear and obvious to me.

I think PaulDJ recommended that because you said you have the fear of having a full swing change if you go to a pro, where as that does not need to be the case. You can go to a pro and say this is my common miss etc and see what they say to fix it based on the swing they see. Or you can go to a pro and say what would you fix. In my opinion a good pro should work with what you have and tweak instead of going full in on a complete change.

I have had lessons where I just let my pro dictate the lesson after a few swings and we have worked on getting things better. But he will always ask questions along the way, after say about 10 warm up shots he has been able to identify my common shot pattern. And there have been lessons where he has said what do you want to work on today, and we work on something I'm struggling with, whether that's long bunker shots or chipping or driving. At the end of the day your the paying customer so you should be comfortable with the way the lesson goes, but it does need to be give and take. You have to trust that they know what they are doing and if they are suggesting a change it is to make you better.

 

[woody69]

I have no doubt your scepticism is well founded.

I dont think pros or teachers (beyond a simple 30 mins get you started lesson as you say, although a quick flick through a book will give you that too), have anything to offer - the fundamental problem being that they have no better idea of what a good golf swing is than anyone else. It remains an interesting conundrum to solve, but so far, it would seem the surface hasnt even been scratched. Pros are invariably those who happen to be good at the game. And were ahead of the rest pretty much since they took it up. Not because they have any particular insight or understanding of the differences between an effective swing, and a poor one. All they really see, and present as swing coaching, are points of style, which tend to follow whoever the top of the tree in the tour scene.

If any of what you have said is true, why do the best golfers in the world, who are undoubtedly better than their coaches have them?

 

[patricks148]

This is a really interesting thread. Another thing though - one person's good coach, is another person's bad coach. Or not even bad, just not right for some people and better for others.

As with the example I posted earlier, my mate went to a guy with a great reputation. Spent hours and lots of dosh on him, and got worse. One lesson with a bloke who I don't think is the best, based on my experiences with him, and my mate broke 100 for the first time in years.

Ive been to the two top Teaching Pros up here, both do the SGU elite coaching and North District. neither improved my game in fact one gave me a real singing Hook i could not control. he had also coached a famous pro from up here that is now based in the US. I know a guy i played with some 10 years ago at Torvean, he was a better player than me at the time and had a lower handicap. he went to this guy for a lot of lessons. he hits the ball less distance than he did back then, his handicap is higher too. I resisted going to my mate for a while, but he can work with my limitations and got me to Cat1, where i've been since. i see him for a check up at least every 6 weeks or if something goes wrong. he is also half the price of the other more highly regards pro's.

 

[Jamesbrown]

It also pays to see a coach who teaches full time. Who pays for his own development. Shows an interest in coaching itself.
Don’t just pick any old pro.

 

[Orikoru]

It also pays to see a coach who teaches full time. Who pays for his own development. Shows an interest in coaching itself.
Don’t just pick any old pro.

Choosing the right pro is just a minefield of trial and error. What we need is a website like Checkatrade, but for golf pros. Where people can add feedback on what the lessons were like, and whether they improved or not.

 

[Wabinez]

That's what I said in the first place! I don't know what the fault is so I'd have to just demonstrate my swing to a pro and let him figure it out. Then PaulDJ said that wasn't the way to go and that I should tell him what I want to work on. We're going round in circles. I just meant exactly that, that I wouldn't be able to identify a problem myself, it's not clear and obvious to me.

The beauty of lessons, is that there is talking. Any good coach/pro/teacher needs your feedback. It's not a case of standing hitting shots and not speaking to the pro and taking what they say as gospel. You need to tell them how you are feeling, what you're thinking and keep chatting to them. The good pros will take this and use it.

If you went to a coach and said 'I struggle with long 2nd shots to par 4s' then it gives them something to work with. Let them know your misses, your traits, what you feel and then they can engage with you. Let the coach know you don't want full scale changes to your swing, but little tweaks...it helps them know what you want to get out of the lesson.

 

[OOB]

I attended a group lesson when I started back playing, and was discussing with the pro one of the things that has always alluded me- the draw.

He watched me hit three shots with my driver, walked in, made a minor adjustment to my grip, and then asked me to hit again... the result? A beautiful 230 yards drive that neatly set off aiming 10 yards right of target to gently sweep in left and land perfectly straight.

It was worth the £50.00 right there, not counting other little tips from the day.

No idea how people think that a PGA qualified professional is not worth the money. These guys are taught how to teach golf, in an in depth way and how to spot and tweak errors. There may be good PGA pros and bad, just like there are good and bad QTS teachers, LTA licenced tennis coaches and any number of qualified coaches you may like to name, but I've not yet seen a bad PGA