Laura Davis to play in a Senior Event

[Deleted member 18588]

from my experience its ladies that don't want to play with men.
ladies at my club can play when they like even on Sat mornings, but a men can't play Tues/ Thurs 8-10.30 4-6. in fact the ladies at my club want a buffer of an hour after there times so men won't be behind them. lots of clubs are the same at least up here.

Similarly at our Club the greatest resistance to integration comes from within the ladies section.

Of course this might change if the number of under fifties was to increase but despite a number of initiatives it seems that golf remains less than appealing to most women.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

from my experience its ladies that don't want to play with men.
ladies at my club can play when they like even on Sat mornings, but a men can't play Tues/ Thurs 8-10.30 4-6. in fact the ladies at my club want a buffer of an hour after there times so men won't be behind them. lots of clubs are the same at least up here.

No doubt, and that's an equally poor view personally. I just don't understand this requirement to keep separate or reserve time before or after whether that's ladies or a comp etc. Just get on and play in the same way everyone else at a club is entitled too. With a bit of luck, if you mix with people you don't know every so often (not all the time as nice playing with friends) then you may have an interesting few hours.

 

[patricks148]

Similarly at our Club the greatest resistance to integration comes from within the ladies section.

Of course this might change if the number of under fifties was to increase but despite a number of initiatives it seems that golf remains less than appealing to most women.

yep we have had a couple of attempts to integrate, but the ladies have overwhelmingly opted to remain separate

 

[Lord Tyrion]

We are diverging a little here but I will join in. We have a mixture of both, ladies have a reserved comp time on a Saturday and men on a Sunday. Membership numbers are not huge though so neither slot takes up too much time or interferes with anyone else. We have mixed pairs comps, I played in one last Friday, and very friendly they are too.

I would be happy to drop the reserved tee times for one sex and play together, ie 2 women and 1 man in a 3 ball or however you want to do it. I agree with other posters that the most likely opposition to this would be the ladies at our club, not the men. We book our comps online via BRS so if you wanted to be in an all male or all female 3 ball then you can choose to do so.

I don't believe you can mix the sexes in the same singles comp however. Different tees = different competition. Adjusting the score for a h/c does not alter the huge differences from different tee boxes, the angle, the obstacles, the hazards that come into play or not.

 

[patricks148]

We are diverging a little here but I will join in. We have a mixture of both, ladies have a reserved comp time on a Saturday and men on a Sunday. Membership numbers are not huge though so neither slot takes up too much time or interferes with anyone else. We have mixed pairs comps, I played in one last Friday, and very friendly they are too.

I would be happy to drop the reserved tee times for one sex and play together, ie 2 women and 1 man in a 3 ball or however you want to do it. I agree with other posters that the most likely opposition to this would be the ladies at our club, not the men. We book our comps online via BRS so if you wanted to be in an all male or all female 3 ball then you can choose to do so.

I don't believe you can mix the sexes in the same singles comp however. Different tees = different competition. Adjusting the score for a h/c does not alter the huge differences from different tee boxes, the angle, the obstacles, the hazards that come into play or not.

wouldn't bother me playing with Ladies TBH, come to think of it i regularly do

But, from experience the whole playing off different tee's really slows things down. from seeing it on the course, men walk back to their tee ladies have to get out the way, then walk to that tee to play a good few mins on every hole. not the end of the world but would make a difference if this was every group out.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We are diverging a little here but I will join in. We have a mixture of both, ladies have a reserved comp time on a Saturday and men on a Sunday. Membership numbers are not huge though so neither slot takes up too much time or interferes with anyone else. We have mixed pairs comps, I played in one last Friday, and very friendly they are too.

I would be happy to drop the reserved tee times for one sex and play together, ie 2 women and 1 man in a 3 ball or however you want to do it. I agree with other posters that the most likely opposition to this would be the ladies at our club, not the men. We book our comps online via BRS so if you wanted to be in an all male or all female 3 ball then you can choose to do so.

I don't believe you can mix the sexes in the same singles comp however. Different tees = different competition. Adjusting the score for a h/c does not alter the huge differences from different tee boxes, the angle, the obstacles, the hazards that come into play or not.

But you can mix the ladies and men from different tees in the same competition- that’s where the course assessment comes into it and adjustments where necessary - that’s how clubs enable ladies and men to play in the same Comp

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But you can mix the ladies and men from different tees in the same competition- that’s where the course assessment comes into it and adjustments where necessary - that’s how clubs enable ladies and men to play in the same Comp

Would you mix men off yellows and white? I'll happily play in comps off the yellows and you can adjust away. It makes the course too different to compare cards, even if you make adjustments to scores. Play at the same time by all means but you can't have the scores comparing in the same comp for me, it doesn't work.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Would you mix men off yellows and white? I'll happily play in comps off the yellows and you can adjust away. It makes the course too different to compare cards, even if you make adjustments to scores. Play at the same time by all means but you can't have the scores comparing in the same comp for me, it doesn't work.

Yes you can mix men of yellows and whites and then the scores are adjusted depending on the standard Scratch of the tees - that’s why each tee is measured for HC and given a standard Scratch.

It does work and we have been doing for years as have many clubs all other the country - when the slope version comes in then it’s even easier to do

To say you “can’t” is quite clearly an incorrect statement because you can and it’s clearly shown in Congu manual how you can and it works well

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Pedants unite. Clearly you can, it happens. My point is I, yes my opinion, is that it should not count. Have different prizes if you are off reds, whites or yellows because they are different courses off each and no matter of adjustment changes that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Pedants unite. Clearly you can, it happens. My point is I, yes my opinion, is that it should not count. Have different prizes if you are off reds, whites or yellows because they are different courses off each and no matter of adjustment changes that.

Nothing to do with being pedantic- you state it can’t happen when clubs all over the country do it on a weekly basis and successfully with no issues and from experience it has show to work out very fair. Courses aren’t that dramatically different from each of the tees at the majority of the courses.

By having each tee rated it gives greater flexibility to mix them up - instead of being stuck with one tee one Comp.

By forcing people to have different comps of different tees you lose the whole idea of playing in the same Comp together , if there is just the one lady playing for example then you have one person in a Comp ? Bit silly

A lot of work has been done to ensure it does work playing of different tees and having played in many and see it work then. Unless you have experienced anything different to other clubs

 

[Capella]

Playing a comp together from different tees is so common here, that I would not even have thought about questioning it, to be honest. But I guess, it does depend a bit on the course design. At my club (and pretty much any of the German clubs I have played at so far), the tee boxes are usually directly in line with each other. Playing from the front tees makes the hole shorter, but pretty much the same hazards and obstacles come into play and as the distances for the diffferent tees are layed out with some consideration in the matter, it normally means that for example a fairway bunker that comes into play for a medium long hitting man off the yellow tees will also come into play for a medium hitting woman off the reds. Par and stroke index for the hole are usually the same for all different tees. The difference in length for the individual holes ranges from about 20 m for the shorter par 3s to 60 m on the par 5s.

Now, I know that on many British courses (at least judging by the few I have played so far), that can be very different. In many cases the ladies tees seem to have been thrown in more as an afterthought and can be pretty randomly placed. On many courses holes that play as par 4 for the men play as par 5 for the ladies, sometimes the tees are so much to the side that bunkers and water hazards are taken out of play etc. I understand that under such circumstances direct comparability is more questionable. It really feels like playing a completely different course.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Capella, That is a great post. You have described it better than I did.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Playing a comp together from different tees is so common here, that I would not even have thought about questioning it, to be honest. But I guess, it does depend a bit on the course design. At my club (and pretty much any of the German clubs I have played at so far), the tee boxes are usually directly in line with each other. Playing from the front tees makes the hole shorter, but pretty much the same hazards and obstacles come into play and as the distances for the diffferent tees are layed out with some consideration in the matter, it normally means that for example a fairway bunker that comes into play for a medium long hitting man off the yellow tees will also come into play for a medium hitting woman off the reds. Par and stroke index for the hole are usually the same for all different tees. The difference in length for the individual holes ranges from about 20 m for the shorter par 3s to 60 m on the par 5s.

Now, I know that on many British courses (at least judging by the few I have played so far), that can be very different. In many cases the ladies tees seem to have been thrown in more as an afterthought and can be pretty randomly placed. On many courses holes that play as par 4 for the men play as par 5 for the ladies, sometimes the tees are so much to the side that bunkers and water hazards are taken out of play etc. I understand that under such circumstances direct comparability is more questionable. It really feels like playing a completely different course.

I believe for most of the courses in tbe UK you will find the same sort of set up with the ladies tees positioned so that the same hazards and troubles for the men are in the play for the ladies - at times the tees will be very close but the par will be a little different but then the handicap the ladies get will be the one from those red tees -

the courses where ladies/red tees are just plonked somewhere will be courses where ladies are an afterthought- i have seen it on a few courses where they put the tee over a pond or a valley but again their Handicap will be assessed from that tee and during the mixed comps it works out very well , what needs to happen next is courses giving ladies and men the choice to go off what ever tee they wish and suits their ability - I know plenty of ladies that would love to play off the back tees and vice versa men who would happily play of the reds - and the good thing is when the sloping and assessing comes in it will be able to happen with either one tee used for all or multi tees with the system making the necessary adjustments- and it’s worked well all over the world

 

[Bunkermagnet]

As I said, I hope Dame Laura does well, but I would stress that I also hope she plays off the same tees as the men for maximum effect and worth.

 

[duncan mackie]

As I said, I hope Dame Laura does well, but I would stress that I also hope she plays off the same tees as the men for maximum effect and worth.

As she's competing I would have thought she would have to be playing from the same tees. (But appreciate such logic can be misplaced!)

 

[clubchamp98]

Playing a comp together from different tees is so common here, that I would not even have thought about questioning it, to be honest. But I guess, it does depend a bit on the course design. At my club (and pretty much any of the German clubs I have played at so far), the tee boxes are usually directly in line with each other. Playing from the front tees makes the hole shorter, but pretty much the same hazards and obstacles come into play and as the distances for the diffferent tees are layed out with some consideration in the matter, it normally means that for example a fairway bunker that comes into play for a medium long hitting man off the yellow tees will also come into play for a medium hitting woman off the reds. Par and stroke index for the hole are usually the same for all different tees. The difference in length for the individual holes ranges from about 20 m for the shorter par 3s to 60 m on the par 5s.

Now, I know that on many British courses (at least judging by the few I have played so far), that can be very different. In many cases the ladies tees seem to have been thrown in more as an afterthought and can be pretty randomly placed. On many courses holes that play as par 4 for the men play as par 5 for the ladies, sometimes the tees are so much to the side that bunkers and water hazards are taken out of play etc. I understand that under such circumstances direct comparability is more questionable. It really feels like playing a completely different course.

We have a few holes like this.
One has the men’s tee 150yds to carry river but ladies is only 40yds.
another the men’s tee is 90* to the dog leg but the ladies is 50 yds to the right making the angle much less.

Surley If we play mixed comps it would even out eventually.
If the ladies played off our white tees it would be to long for them, but there are plenty of men who can’t handle the length as well .
In the USA you play the tee that suits your ability (slope system) and I think this will be the future here as well.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

As she's competing I would have thought she would have to be playing from the same tees. (But appreciate such logic can be misplaced!)

I would have thought the same tees would be compulsory

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well she came 44th in tbe event finished at 8 over , her first round of 6 over was a bit of a killer but she did have a 1 Under second round

 

[User101]

What size was the field ?

 

[Capella]

What size was the field ?

60, there was no cut.