Labour Party discuss

[Deleted member 1147]

Surely it goes against the “will of the people” to have another vote

 

[Foxholer]

Confirmed left, he's not joining the 'trendy' new IG though and he's not wangling to stop Brexit either, long standing Labour man so no agenda other than he must be truly exasperated with where Corbyn has taken and is taking the Labour Party. Sad it's come to that.
Just adding more uncertainty to fairly worrying times.

Seems to me that they have kept some fundamental failings/flaws (specifically anti-Semitism) iif not totally, then at least 'pretty much' under wraps/out of the media, very well. To me, genuine anti-Semitism is obscene, but so is the denial of reasonable Palestinian (or any other 'race' for that matter) rights! I don't believe criticism of the Human Rights abuses that are a consequence of some of the policies of the State of Israel is anti-Semitic - at least not as per the definitions I've seen!

 

[SocketRocket]

Surely it goes against the “will of the people” to have another vote

Exactly and these defectors in IG are all proponents of a second vote. Rather hypocritical, don't you think.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Rather hypocritical, don't you think.

To request a by-election?
Yes 👍

 

[Sweep]

To request a by-election?
Yes 👍

Not really.
Those in favour of a second referendum say:
The landscape of Brexit has changed. People know more now.
They were ill informed prior to the vote.
They didn’t know what they were voting for.
I disagree. Brexit is the same as it ever was. People knew the situation. There was plenty of info available and they did know what they were voting for. To suggest otherwise is a little insulting tbh.

All these MP’s cite the above reasons when calling for a second referendum.
However, in the case for a by-election all the above is true.
The landscape of their constituency has changed - through their actions.
People do know more now - they now know they voted for a candidate who was not true to the manifesto they presented to the electorate.
They were ill informed prior to the vote - They thought they were voting for a member of a party when they were actually voting for something quite different.
They didn’t know what they were voting for - That is clearly true and is beyond doubt.
The integrity of an MP is paramount. It has great bearing on how well they can do their job. These MP’s cannot argue the case for a second referendum using the above reasoning and yet conveniently ignore it in the case for a second election in their own constituency and expect to keep their integrity. The respect of their electorate depends upon it.
I am afraid this is typical of today’s politician. They are quite prepared to accept and uphold democracy when it gets them elected but very happy to ignore and even deny it when it goes against them.
There are also fundamental reasons why by-elections should be called and a second referendum cannot.
A by-election causes a bit of uncertainty in a constituency. A second referendum delays Brexit and causes pan-European uncertainty, especially nationally in the UK.
A by-election serves democracy across the whole political spectrum of issues. A second referendum denies democracy on a single binary choice.
A by-election can be organised in weeks. A referendum would take months if not longer.
The impact of a by-election is as nothing compared to the triggering of a second referendum which would call into question Britain’s position as one of the world’s great democracies. It would go against the very demands we make of other nations.

If these MP’s had the slightest belief they were representing the true will of their constituents they would take action and trigger a by election immediately. The fact that they have failed to do so tells us all we need to know.

 

[User62651]

Not really.
Those in favour of a second referendum say:
The landscape of Brexit has changed. People know more now.
They were ill informed prior to the vote.
They didn’t know what they were voting for.
I disagree. Brexit is the same as it ever was. People knew the situation. There was plenty of info available and they did know what they were voting for. To suggest otherwise is a little insulting tbh.

All these MP’s cite the above reasons when calling for a second referendum.
However, in the case for a by-election all the above is true.
The landscape of their constituency has changed - through their actions.
People do know more now - they now know they voted for a candidate who was not true to the manifesto they presented to the electorate.
They were ill informed prior to the vote - They thought they were voting for a member of a party when they were actually voting for something quite different.
They didn’t know what they were voting for - That is clearly true and is beyond doubt.
The integrity of an MP is paramount. It has great bearing on how well they can do their job. These MP’s cannot argue the case for a second referendum using the above reasoning and yet conveniently ignore it in the case for a second election in their own constituency and expect to keep their integrity. The respect of their electorate depends upon it.
I am afraid this is typical of today’s politician. They are quite prepared to accept and uphold democracy when it gets them elected but very happy to ignore and even deny it when it goes against them.
There are also fundamental reasons why by-elections should be called and a second referendum cannot.
A by-election causes a bit of uncertainty in a constituency. A second referendum delays Brexit and causes pan-European uncertainty, especially nationally in the UK.
A by-election serves democracy across the whole political spectrum of issues. A second referendum denies democracy on a single binary choice.
A by-election can be organised in weeks. A referendum would take months if not longer.
The impact of a by-election is as nothing compared to the triggering of a second referendum which would call into question Britain’s position as one of the world’s great democracies. It would go against the very demands we make of other nations.

If these MP’s had the slightest belief they were representing the true will of their constituents they would take action and trigger a by election immediately. The fact that they have failed to do so tells us all we need to know.

Do MEPs count in this integrity argument of yours?
If so Leave hero Farage sits as an MEP for the Brexit Party having gained election whilst representing UKIP who he chose to leave. Should he not face a by-election too? Double standards otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Not really.
Those in favour of a second referendum say:
The landscape of Brexit has changed. People know more now.
They were ill informed prior to the vote.
They didn’t know what they were voting for.
I disagree. Brexit is the same as it ever was. People knew the situation. There was plenty of info available and they did know what they were voting for. To suggest otherwise is a little insulting tbh.

All these MP’s cite the above reasons when calling for a second referendum.
However, in the case for a by-election all the above is true.
The landscape of their constituency has changed - through their actions.
People do know more now - they now know they voted for a candidate who was not true to the manifesto they presented to the electorate.
They were ill informed prior to the vote - They thought they were voting for a member of a party when they were actually voting for something quite different.
They didn’t know what they were voting for - That is clearly true and is beyond doubt.
The integrity of an MP is paramount. It has great bearing on how well they can do their job. These MP’s cannot argue the case for a second referendum using the above reasoning and yet conveniently ignore it in the case for a second election in their own constituency and expect to keep their integrity. The respect of their electorate depends upon it.
I am afraid this is typical of today’s politician. They are quite prepared to accept and uphold democracy when it gets them elected but very happy to ignore and even deny it when it goes against them.
There are also fundamental reasons why by-elections should be called and a second referendum cannot.
A by-election causes a bit of uncertainty in a constituency. A second referendum delays Brexit and causes pan-European uncertainty, especially nationally in the UK.
A by-election serves democracy across the whole political spectrum of issues. A second referendum denies democracy on a single binary choice.
A by-election can be organised in weeks. A referendum would take months if not longer.
The impact of a by-election is as nothing compared to the triggering of a second referendum which would call into question Britain’s position as one of the world’s great democracies. It would go against the very demands we make of other nations.

If these MP’s had the slightest belief they were representing the true will of their constituents they would take action and trigger a by election immediately. The fact that they have failed to do so tells us all we need to know.

Christ, you put some effort into replying to a sarcastic comeback!

What are you going to do with your time once brexit’s over and done with?

You need a hobby mate...have you thought about golf?

 

[Sweep]

Do MEPs count in this integrity argument of yours?
If so Leave hero Farage sits as an MEP for the Brexit Party having gained election whilst representing UKIP who he chose to leave. Should he not face a by-election too? Double standards otherwise.

Of course MEPs count. The difference is obvious. Farage stood on an anti EU manifesto and was duly elected. His policies haven’t changed. His manifesto pledges remain. And oddly, his party changed more than he did. However, I don’t see an issue with having him stand again. I am not sure how by-elections work in the EU Parliament or indeed if they have them. I am sure they must have some mechanism.

 

[Sweep]

Christ, you put some effort into replying to a sarcastic comeback!

What are you going to do with your time once brexit’s over and done with?

You need a hobby mate...have you thought about golf?

You actually took the time and effort to post this?
Just in case you were unaware, it’s a forum. No-one is forced to post on it and no-one is forced to read it. Hint: If you don’t like it, don’t read it and don’t post. Simples.
Have you considered that the political threads may be for people of a more mature attitude interested in debating political topics of the day, rather than posting childish nonsense that adds nothing to the debate? Maybe you are out of your depth?
Even though your post on the subject was sarcastic and lightweight, the matter being discussed is, to some of us at least, an interesting point about our democratic process, especially when you consider the MP’s concerned stated position on a second EU referendum. Don’t worry, no one expects you to understand.
As for what am I going to do after Brexit. I guess I will post on the political matters of the day, just like I did before Brexit. Safe in the knowledge I don’t need your permission.
Now, run along and let the grown ups have a chat.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

You actually took the time and effort to post this?
Just in case you were unaware, it’s a forum. No-one is forced to post on it and no-one is forced to read it. Hint: If you don’t like it, don’t read it and don’t post. Simples.
Have you considered that the political threads may be for people of a more mature attitude interested in debating political topics of the day, rather than posting childish nonsense that adds nothing to the debate? Maybe you are out of your depth?
Even though your post on the subject was sarcastic and lightweight, the matter being discussed is, to some of us at least, an interesting point about our democratic process, especially when you consider the MP’s concerned stated position on a second EU referendum. Don’t worry, no one expects you to understand.
As for what am I going to do after Brexit. I guess I will post on the political matters of the day, just like I did before Brexit. Safe in the knowledge I don’t need your permission.
Now, run along and let the grown ups have a chat.

😘

 

[SocketRocket]

😘

Is that all you have

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Is that all you have

🥰

 

[SocketRocket]

🥰

🚮

 

[Deleted member 18588]

How far to the left has the Labour Party swung?

I have just seen Deputy Leader Tom Watson described as "moderate"!

 

[Old Skier]

How far to the left has the Labour Party swung?

I have just seen Deputy Leader Tom Watson described as "moderate"!

He is also starting a sub group within the Labour Party to get away from the activities of Momentum and the Marxist left of Labour. Looks like both parties heading for a big split.

People may not believe in Brexit but it might, at last, sort our political parties out.

 

[SocketRocket]

How far to the left has the Labour Party swung?

I have just seen Deputy Leader Tom Watson described as "moderate"!

The Nonce Finder General.

 

[Tashyboy]

So on the pretence that we have X number of by elections because they have left there party and manifestos which helped them get into Parliment.
1, Do we have another general election coz Dave Cameron chucked his teddy out of the window when we voted for Brexit. W nee er voted for T may we voted for Cameron to carry this through.
2, How can Jeremy Corbyn spout off about his members jumping ship when they got voted in on a labour manifesto. His members voted in favour of " no confidence " in him yet he choose to ignore it.

What all this tells me is that when it suits, a majority vote suits, when it don't, it don't.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So on the pretence that we have X number of by elections because they have left there party and manifestos which helped them get into Parliment.
1, Do we have another general election coz Dave Cameron chucked his teddy out of the window when we voted for Brexit. W nee er voted for T may we voted for Cameron to carry this through.
2, How can Jeremy Corbyn spout off about his members jumping ship when they got voted in on a labour manifesto. His members voted in favour of " no confidence " in him yet he choose to ignore it.

What all this tells me is that when it suits, a majority vote suits, when it don't, it don't.

Sorry mate, you’re adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.

Diferent rules cover those scenarios.

 

[Tashyboy]

Sorry mate, you’re adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.

Diferent rules cover those scenarios.

Those differant scenarios are what I am on about, why do we give any serious thought to Corbyns comments or credibility when he has already ignored one vote. Coz it suited him.

 

[SocketRocket]

So on the pretence that we have X number of by elections because they have left there party and manifestos which helped them get into Parliment.
1, Do we have another general election coz Dave Cameron chucked his teddy out of the window when we voted for Brexit. W nee er voted for T may we voted for Cameron to carry this through.
2, How can Jeremy Corbyn spout off about his members jumping ship when they got voted in on a labour manifesto. His members voted in favour of " no confidence " in him yet he choose to ignore it.

What all this tells me is that when it suits, a majority vote suits, when it don't, it don't.

Its not the same Tashy. We dont vote for a prime minister in an election, we only vote for a local prospective MP. The Party that becomes the government decide who they want to be Prime Minister. Theresa May's party did win the last election with her as PM.