Is this racism?

[Mrs Wiggles]

This is all about snowflakes be offended on someone else's behalf. I grew up being told that people should be strong enough to shrug off bigotry and offensive remarks. Now the emphasis is about tip toeing on egg shells in an effort not to upset anyone. I am proud to admit that there has never been a day in my life where I have attempted to be politically correct. I mange not to be offended by anything bad said to me (and there is loads) so I expect people to reciprocate when I am rude to them (and I quite often am)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...and so if the guys in my golf club had 'blacked-up' when they did their Diana Ross and the Supremes bit in our club Christmas Show - and someone had videoed them and posted that on a local community Facebook page - how do we think that would have gone down out there? What do we think folks out there would have thought of us? Make us more attractive to new, younger and ethnic minority members?

It's all very well and good to say - I'm alright with it - if others take offence then hell mend 'em that's their problem - but if others do take a very different view from you then that could well come back to bite - I just think that you have to be very careful. The historical connections back through such as the B&W Minstrel Show are strong and not terribly positive.

 

[londonlewis]

...and so if the guys in my golf club had 'blacked-up' when they did their Diana Ross and the Supremes bit in our club Christmas Show - and someone had videoed them and posted that on a local community Facebook page - how do we think that would have gone down out there? What do we think folks out there would have thought of us? Make us more attractive to new, younger and ethnic minority members?

It's all very well and good to say - I'm alright with it - if others take offence then hell mend 'em that's their problem - but if others do take a very different view from you then that could well come back to bite - I just think that you have to be very careful. The historical connections back through such as the B&W Minstrel Show are strong and not terribly positive.

you make an excellent point. But who decides what is and what isn't offensive?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

you make an excellent point. But who decides what is and what isn't offensive?

...those out there who would view the video...

 

[Lord Tyrion]

you make an excellent point. But who decides what is and what isn't offensive?

Society. It is ever changing and on the whole the right choices are made.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Dress up as Eddie Murphy, Samuel L Jackson, Will Smith and any other black actor that you admire. Don't put boot polish on your face though. Not tough to understand, most people get this.

Probably best to choose someone else to get dressed up as altogether.

Let’s say you dress up as Will Smith from Men in Black,you’re basically Tommy Lee Jones.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Probably best to choose someone else to get dressed up as altogether.

Let’s say you dress up as Will Smith from Men in Black,you’re basically Tommy Lee Jones.

Ha ha good point. The same outfit covers The Blues Brothers, minus the hats, so I could really confuse people there.

I hate fancy dress so I'd avoid it full stop.

 

[londonlewis]

Society. It is ever changing and on the whole the right choices are made.

Society as a whole or those that shout the loudest?
It doesn't take long on twitter to see what you are dealing with.

Debatable whether the right changes are being made. But fair point I suppose.

 

[williamalex1]

Ha ha good point. The same outfit covers The Blues Brothers, minus the hats, so I could really confuse people there.

I hate fancy dress so I'd avoid it full stop.

It's getting beyond a joke , some people will really need to lighten up

 

[londonlewis]

...those out there who would view the video...

If more people don't find something offensive than do find something offensive, is it offensive or not?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If more people don't find something offensive than do find something offensive, is it offensive or not?

As far as my club's Christmas Show scenario is concerned the numbers don't really matter I'd suggest. If only one person at the show found it offensive; video'd it, and posted the video on social media that can initiate enough outrage being raised for it very quickly to be very problematic - and could easily goes viral and become extremely damaging to the club.

As it happens the guys were great - they danced the parts brilliantly and all had a great laugh. And not a blacked face in sight.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Society as a whole or those that shout the loudest?
It doesn't take long on twitter to see what you are dealing with.

Debatable whether the right changes are being made. But fair point I suppose.

Ah, never listen to Twitter, full of angry people .

I guess my point is that society evolves and what is acceptable changes. There is rarely an announcement, it just gradually alters. I remember getting picked up when I described someone as coloured a good few years ago. That was perfectly acceptable for years and then suddenly it wasn't. Okay, change of language noted and we move on.

On an extreme level the football thread was talking about monkey chants in the 80's. Society deemed that unacceptable and that would not happen now, quite rightly.

The worry is if the pendulum swings too far and the twitterati and snowflakes get to decide. I'm with you there.

 

[londonlewis]

Ah, never listen to Twitter, full of angry people .

I guess my point is that society evolves and what is acceptable changes. There is rarely an announcement, it just gradually alters. I remember getting picked up when I described someone as coloured a good few years ago. That was perfectly acceptable for years and then suddenly it wasn't. Okay, change of language noted and we move on.

On an extreme level the football thread was talking about monkey chants in the 80's. Society deemed that unacceptable and that would not happen now, quite rightly.

The worry is if the pendulum swings too far and the twitterati and snowflakes get to decide. I'm with you there.

You used to be able to call people black, then it was coloured, then it was black, now it's person of colour ... seems like political correctness can't make its mind up and is arguing a minor point (considering it keeps going back to being acceptable to call someone something that you previously shouldn't call them)

Monkey chants - this is preventing racism (in my opinion), so definitely a good thing.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It can be a minefield, no question.

 

[Mrs Wiggles]

Society. It is ever changing and on the whole the right choices are made.

Disagree. Few people actually get offended. I have friends of different colours, faiths, and religions, and the banter between us is great. My best friend is Anglo Indian, and tells us that all white people look the same and smell of urine. When ever he says this we laugh, because we have a strong enough back bone to find it funny. I have a good mate that is from Dublin, and he enjoys Irish jokes as much as anyone else. The emphasis should be on NOT being over sensitive, and take a joke as it is meant to be. We now have a situation where some black people actually believe that they don't get jobs because of their colour, rather than their inexperience or their poor interviewing technique. We have women who actually believe that women earn less than men, when in actual fact studies prove that like for like they earn fractionally more. This country is the craziest country in the world, and I really wish that those who get upset about small things should brush the chip off of their shoulder and just get on with life.

If you disagree with me, I suggest you don't play golf with my friends, because honestly, my views are tame !

 

[Mrs Wiggles]

You used to be able to call people black, then it was coloured, then it was black, now it's person of colour ... seems like political correctness can't make its mind up and is arguing a minor point (considering it keeps going back to being acceptable to call someone something that you previously shouldn't call them)

Monkey chants - this is preventing racism (in my opinion), so definitely a good thing.

I own a football season ticket, and travelled abroad ten times to see my team. I genuinely haven't heard a monkey chant since the 70s. There are those people who genuinely look for racism where racism doesn't exist.

 

[bluewolf]

I own a football season ticket, and travelled abroad ten times to see my team. I genuinely haven't heard a monkey chant since the 70s. There are those people who genuinely look for racism where racism doesn't exist.

You are 100% absolutely deluded if you think Racism doesn't exist on football terraces.....

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Disagree. Few people actually get offended. I have friends of different colours, faiths, and religions, and the banter between us is great. My best friend is Anglo Indian, and tells us that all white people look the same and smell of urine. When ever he says this we laugh, because we have a strong enough back bone to find it funny. I have a good mate that is from Dublin, and he enjoys Irish jokes as much as anyone else. The emphasis should be on NOT being over sensitive, and take a joke as it is meant to be. We now have a situation where some black people actually believe that they don't get jobs because of their colour, rather than their inexperience or their poor interviewing technique. We have women who actually believe that women earn less than men, when in actual fact studies prove that like for like they earn fractionally more. This country is the craziest country in the world, and I really wish that those who get upset about small things should brush the chip off of their shoulder and just get on with life.

If you disagree with me, I suggest you don't play golf with my friends, because honestly, my views are tame !

Surely it’s about knowing your audience, your best mate is probably your best mate because of time, spent together, growing up together etc and shared experiences you’ve developed.
Now if you were on a night out in a pub and he was overheard saying all white people look the same and smell of urine and a white person nearby overheard him and was offended and then punched your mate, would you then calmly explain to the offended your mate meant no offence or get laid into them?

Like the Dundee footballer, there could of been 200 people at that party and even if there was a risk of offending just 1 out of the 200, then he should of avoided offending the 1, and it’s got nothing to do with Political Correctness or being a snowflake or whatever, it’s about being a decent human being. Why risk offending anyone?

 

[Mrs Wiggles]

Surely it’s about knowing your audience, your best mate is probably your best mate because of time, spent together, growing up together etc and shared experiences you’ve developed.
Now if you were on a night out in a pub and he was overheard saying all white people look the same and smell of urine and a white person nearby overheard him and was offended and then punched your mate, would you then calmly explain to the offended your mate meant no offence or get laid into them?

Seriously, and I mean mean this 100%, I would not be offended. Very little offends me because I have a backbone and the ability to let water run off my ducks back. You can say what you want about me, my family, my race, and even my football team, as words are simply a combination of letters, and no more. My Anglo Indian mate quite often has Pa7i jokes told to him, because his appearance makes him look as such. He has a number of humorous replies he uses when necessary. If everyone thought like him and I, there would be no problem, and we could all just get on with life. I am white, heterosexual, in my sixties, balding, and not very tall. You can tell me as many jokes as you want about people who fit into my description, and then see how upset I get. Well, I don't, and that's because I don't have a chip on my shoulder.

Yes, there are lines that shouldn't be crossed, but those lines should be very wide, not very thin !

 

[Mrs Wiggles]

You are 100% absolutely deluded if you think Racism doesn't exist on football terraces.....

Well, I don't know where you watch football, but at my football club I don't see any, and neither do I when I travel to other clubs in this country or others I visit. Of course, I would imagine there is some in Russia and other Eastern block countries, but that really isn't my business. 55% of the premiership players are now black, so what supporters would chant songs about other teams black players. It wouldn't really make sense, would it ?