Is removal of head cover required when measuring club length to take relief?

[Karltully]

When recently playing in a foursomes event, our ball came to rest on a tractor mark. I asked our playing partners if they were happy for us to take relief from this to which they agreed. I marked where the ball had come to rest, lifted it and then proceeded to identify the nearest point of relief, marking that with tee peg. I used my driver to establish one club length from the nearest point of relief, not nearer the hole and marked this with another tee peg. In gauging the club length distance, I left my head cover on my driver. The ball was dropped roughly mid-way between the two tee pegs, not nearer the hole and the ball was played from there. On completion of the round, one of our playing partners politely informed me that, when using a club to measure one club length, the club's head cover must be removed. I wasn't sure that this was correct however I took them at their word and thanked them, assuming that they were correct in their knowledge. Having carried out some research since then however, I have been unable to establish a rule which specifies that a head cover must be removed when measuring a club length. I have spoken to many people and have heard many conflicting opinions on this but have been unable to get a conclusive ruling. I even read somewhere that that "there is nothing in the Rules that says that a club must be used in measuring club-lengths. A drop is valid providing the ball first touches the course within the distance required by the Rule and does not come to rest in a place that requires it to be re-dropped (e.g. nearer the hole or out of bounds). Thus, one or two club-length distances may be estimated and don’t have to be accurately marked, although it is obviously wise to do so if you want to use the full extent of the relief that is available. If a club is used to define the extent of the area in which the ball is to be dropped there is no requirement for the head-cover to be removed. However, the measurement obviously does not include the extra length provided by the head-cover, as this is not part of the club".

Can anyone shed further light on this as I and my friends would really like to be able to settle the argument once and for all.

 

[guest100718]

No it doesnt need to be removed, you dont even need to use a club at all to measure. You could just pick up the ball and drop it, probably not a great idea though.

 

[woody69]

I don't believe there is anything in the rules that stipulate you "must" remove the headcover, but it's more of a good practice/etiquette thing. As you say, club length can in fact be estimated and you don't actually have to use a club to do it.

 

[Robobum]

No need to whip the cover off, but the ultimate measurement is still the length of the golf club - so if you are trying to get the max relief possible, it's prudent to take the cover off to establish (and demonstrate) that point.

You cannot use the 2 foot Elephants trunk on your novelty cover to get you back to the fairway

Or go to a belly putter for specialist drops!!!!!!

 

[guest100718]

No need to whip the cover off, but the ultimate measurement is still the length of the golf club - so if you are trying to get the max relief possible, it's prudent to take the cover off to establish (and demonstrate) that point.

You cannot use the 2 foot Elephants trunk on your novelty cover to get you back to the fairway

Or go to a belly putter for specialist drops!!!!!!

I dont think there is any reason why you can't use a long putter.

 

[Old Skier]

No it doesnt need to be removed, you dont even need to use a club at all to measure. You could just pick up the ball and drop it, probably not a great idea though.

Could you point me in the right direction in the rule book where it states this. I also cannot find the bit where it says you don't have to remove the head cover. The only bits I can find are about drops being taken within 1/2 clubs length, not 1/2 clubs length and a head cover. If you consider the size of some head covers I suspect you will come to your own conclusion on this.

 

[Foxholer]

No it doesnt need to be removed, you dont even need to use a club at all to measure. You could just pick up the ball and drop it, probably not a great idea though.

Is the correct answer.

It doesn't need to be removed and the Rule doesn't state that it has to be measured. But if you want to measure it accurately, then that's the way to do it.

Rule only states that it 'must be dropped within....'. How you achieve that is not, nor need not be, addressed by the rule. Equivalent to Marking your ball on the Green - though in that case, there's a recommendation on what with.

By dropping well inside the boundary, there should be no question as to the validity of the drop.

So 'You Must' is wrong; 'It's more accurate to' would be correct.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Obviously the club head cover isn't actually part of the club. So if you mark limit of drop distance using club with club head cover on and then asked to prove that you dropped legally then that would require removing of club head cover I'd have thought. You'd clearly be OK given you cleartly dropped well within club length distance.

I never knew you could estimate where you drop it and not have to measure first. I will often - in friendly play - say to a PP when dropping 'OK if I drop about here?' and he'll say OK. I thought I was breaking the rules in not measuring and marking using a club - but it seems I am not.

 

[guest100718]

Could you point me in the right direction in the rule book where it states this. I also cannot find the bit where it says you don't have to remove the head cover. The only bits I can find are about drops being taken within 1/2 clubs length, not 1/2 clubs length and a head cover. If you consider the size of some head covers I suspect you will come to your own conclusion on this.

I dont know if such words exist? But obviously The cover isnt part of the club.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I dont think there is any reason why you can't use a long putter.

Are you not supposed to measure drop limits and checking you are taking relief correctly -using the club you are likely to use to play the shot you would have played had obstruction from which relief is being given not been there.

 

[Robobum]

I dont think there is any reason why you can't use a long putter.

That could be why I put in my post :thup:

 

[Foxholer]

Are you not supposed to measure drop limits and checking you are taking relief correctly -using the club you are likely to use to play the shot you would have played had obstruction from which relief is being given not been there.

You are confusing Drop limits with the qualification for Relief in the first place.

If shot is likely to be played with PW, then checking whether relief available should be done with PW. Once Relief is granted, then any club can be used to measure the distance from NPoR.

 

[guest100718]

That could be why I put in my post :thup:

Ah yes I see what you are saying. it didnt read that way to me first time.

 

[rulefan]

This from the R&A in response to dispute between me and a referee from another organisation who maintained that measuring with a headcover was breach.

As you know, certain Rules such as Rule 24, Rule 25 and Rule 28c require the player to drop the ball within a specific distance if the player decides to take relief. The Rule stipulates that the player must drop the ball within one club-length or two club-lengths where applicable. However, the Rule does not stipulate that the player must measure this distance, just that the ball when dropped must be dropped within this distance. To avoid the possibility of a penalty and playing from a wrong place, it is advisable that the player does actually measure out the distance but there is no penalty if the player fails to do the measuring as long as the ball is dropped clearly within the required distance.

In measuring the one or two club-length dropping area, the player can use any club to do this. He may even keep the head cover on, however, if he does so he is in danger of dropping a ball and playing it from a wrong place. The penalty would kick in only when the player plays the ball from the wrong place. Measuring with the head cover on the club may mean that the player measures an extra couple of inches that would not otherwise be the case with the head cover off. There is no penalty for measuring this extra distance however the key is that the player must drop the ball within the area that he could have measured with the head-cover off. If he drops beyond that point and then plays the ball, he will have played from a wrong place.

Consequently, it is advisable to measure the distance with the head cover off.

 

[bladeplayer]

very interesting this one , i must admit i thought you had to measure it , & would have said as the head cover is not part of the club it should be removed ..

so i wonder who calls the penalty if its played from the wrong place ? surely if you know its outside the distance you re drop , does your FC or PP wait for you to play then call you on it .. could lead to an interesting conversation / discussion

 

[Twire]

very interesting this one , i must admit i thought you had to measure it , & would have said as the head cover is not part of the club it should be removed ..

so i wonder who calls the penalty if its played from the wrong place ? surely if you know its outside the distance you re drop , does your FC or PP wait for you to play then call you on it .. could lead to an interesting conversation / discussion

Just to add a bit more confusion. It's allowed to roll 2 club lengths (no nearer the hole) from where it first struck the course after dropping, so unless you saw exactly where it struck the course it would be very difficult to prove either way.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Sometimes the rules are actually quite flexible and common sense. Why waste time getting out a club, taking off headcover, measuring two clublengths from the edge of a lateral when you are going to drop well within that anyway and everyone can see that? The rules allow you to just get on with it. If on the other hand you want the maximum you can get to avoid a bush then you'd better measure to be sure you are not a) actually cheating or b) appearing to cheat. If you don't (and it's clear you don't have to) then you are just asking for trouble sooner or later.

 

[atticusfinch]

The rules say a drop must be within one or two "clublengths." A club's length only includes the club itself. You do not need a rule that says anything about the cover. The definition of clublength is sufficient.

(This is an example of what is meant by reading the rules literally.)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You are confusing Drop limits with the qualification for Relief in the first place.

If shot is likely to be played with PW, then checking whether relief available should be done with PW. Once Relief is granted, then any club can be used to measure the distance from NPoR.

Actually thinking about what I do - of course I use my driver when measuring clubs lengths and drop limits - but I use the correct club when ascertaining my npor.

 

[markgs]

Just to add a bit more confusion. It's allowed to roll 2 club lengths (no nearer the hole) from where it first struck the course after dropping, so unless you saw exactly where it struck the course it would be very difficult to prove either way.

so if i took a drop 2 club lengths and it rolled 20 yards onto the fairway and it did not go nearer the hole its ok?