Is Money the Root of all Evil

[GB72]

Having read the thread about having maximum handicaps in competitions and various other threads about concerns with impressive competition scores etc, I started to wonder whether money is the root of all evil here.

I know that pretty much everyone here is playing golf for the handicap cuts, the personal challenge and the chance to improve but I am starting to wonder if this is the case across golf club membership. Would there be as many complaints about scores (or even as many supposedly spurious scores) if you took away the pro shop credits and union vouchers. What if the prize for winning a comp was a bit of self pride, a handshake and a handicap cut. Would you get as many concerns over who won, would you even get as many entrants. After all, what is the point of banditry if your only reward is the handicap cuts that you had been trying so hard to avoid. People never say that they are in the competition for the money but is that really always the case.

Just interested to see what people think. Would club level golf be better off if all form of physical reward were removed from club competition and comps went to just playing for a bit of glory and a handicap cut.

 

[USER1999]

Since I won 400 yesterday, I'm probably the wrong person to answer!

 

[patricks148]

maybe something in that... TBH I don't care about prize money etc. Ive seen of the last few years so doubtful scores in Texas Scrambles, where high prize money is on offer.

 

[davidy233]

I've never ever thought of the cash/voucher prizes for a golf tournament - doesn't come into my mind as a reason for entering.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

If you took away the prize money, most people wouldn't enter. Many, if not most, club golfers want to have a handicap that they can comfortably play to without having to improve or work on their game and they wouldn't enter if they didn't feel they could win. I'm not saying everyone manipulates their handicap, just that they are comfortable with a certain handicap and also have an incorrect (IMHO) interpretation of what the handicap is supposed to represent. Many people think that you are supposed to be able to play to your handicap all the time (and by that, that they are supposed to score 36 points (assuming SSS=Par etc etc)). I have heard several people make comments about not wanting to go too low and wanting an x handicap or liking having a shot at x hole.

I had a mate call be a couple of weeks ago to ask me what our asst. pro was like as a teacher. He was distraught as he had just shot 92 in the midweek medal because it was a whole 6 shots above his handicap. I tried to console him by telling him that I had shot 92 the previous weekend off of 8 and that 6 shots isn't that bad but he wouldn't have it. He subsequently booked a course of lessons, not because he wanted to lower his handicap, but because he wanted to play to his current one more often and have more chance of winning.

Many club golfers want to be rewarded for average golf, if they win and get cut, they can't wait until their handicap goes back up to where they like it, there is no real desire to improve. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, the handicap system is supposed to make a level playing field and it is what makes club golf the great thing that it is, but it is also one of the problems with club golf, in that it rewards "average" golf.

 

[fundy]

Not sure I agree here. Our comps are £3 to enter and cant remember prize money ever being more than £20, I sure as hell dont enter for the prize money but to play some competitive golf and pretty sure thats the same for everyone at ours. Dont get me wrong, nice to win the odd prize but certainly not my main incentive

 

[duncan mackie]

If you took away the prize money, most people wouldn't enter.

strange, we've found that it makes little difference to entries.

we don't have divisions, and distribution is via a matrix that effectively just spreads the pot wider when it gets bigger and, at around 10 x entry fee, no-ones getting rich!

in answer to the OP - it's all a matter of scale. If people perceive they can profit from winning they will sometimes put in more efforts to win than are healthy!

I have no problem with large prize table NQ events - I simply avoid them like the plague, and not surprisingly, rarely see the people who do play them in our friendly Q events!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Not sure I agree here. Our comps are £3 to enter and cant remember prize money ever being more than £20, I sure as hell dont enter for the prize money but to play some competitive golf and pretty sure thats the same for everyone at ours. Dont get me wrong, nice to win the odd prize but certainly not my main incentive

It is however the main incentive for many.

 

[duncan mackie]

Not sure I agree here. Our comps are £3 to enter and cant remember prize money ever being more than £20, I sure as hell dont enter for the prize money but to play some competitive golf and pretty sure thats the same for everyone at ours. Dont get me wrong, nice to win the odd prize but certainly not my main incentive

this pretty much reflects us too - but I am well aware that it doesn't reflect all club play around the country!

 

[fundy]

It is however the main incentive for many.

Maybe so elsewhere, but not the case at our place at all (get more for a 2 than winning a comp most weeks lol). Any prize money goes on my bar card and i dont even see it anyway (just gets spent like the rest). Yeah theres a few handicap protectors, like everywhere, but pretty sure they do it for pride of winning (in their opinion) not for the prizes they actually win

 

[moogie]

I don't enter comps for the cash
I play for fun
If there was an option at my club for entry ONLY, and NO sweep option, I'd happily do that (but there isn't)
The entry would mean I'd still be up for handicap adjustments
The prize money means zilch to me

 

[GB72]

Thing is, if there were no prizes, nothing would matter except your i
Own score. It would not matter if a 28 handicapper played to 10 or a junior scored 50 points. All that they have won is a step nearer an accurate handicap. If you took away all prices I would bet that claims of banditry or calls for handicap restrictions on comps would vanish.

 

[fundy]

Thing is, if there were no prizes, nothing would matter except your i
Own score. It would not matter if a 28 handicapper played to 10 or a junior scored 50 points. All that they have won is a step nearer an accurate handicap. If you took away all prices I would bet that claims of banditry or calls for handicap restrictions on comps would vanish.

So youre taking away any trophies, end of season prize giving and names on the boards too? Yep then no one would bother

 

[duncan mackie]

Thing is, if there were no prizes, nothing would matter except your i
Own score. It would not matter if a 28 handicapper played to 10 or a junior scored 50 points. All that they have won is a step nearer an accurate handicap. If you took away all prices I would bet that claims of banditry or calls for handicap restrictions on comps would vanish.

don't fall into the trap of believing that pride and prizes are the same thing! I might even raise the 'Ryder Cup' as a topical example, or even better amateur Rugby, Olympics etc when they were amateur!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Not sure I agree here. Our comps are £3 to enter and cant remember prize money ever being more than £20, I sure as hell dont enter for the prize money but to play some competitive golf and pretty sure thats the same for everyone at ours. Dont get me wrong, nice to win the odd prize but certainly not my main incentive

this pretty much reflects us too - but I am well aware that it doesn't reflect all club play around the country!

Maybe it is to do with the standard of player at the club? We have very few Cat 1 players and our lowest h'cap is 1. At the club championship this weekend I was the 16th lowest handicap entered at 8.5. If you took away the handicap prize, I suspect there would only be about 16 of us entered. We are pretty much a "handicap" golf club. There is no scratch team and the only scratch comp is the CC but that also has a handicap prize. We also have a lot (probably a majority) of senior 5 day members who won't play off the white tees.

Do you guys have a lot of cat 1 and + handicaps?

 

[fundy]

Maybe it is to do with the standard of player at the club? We have very few Cat 1 players and our lowest h'cap is 1. At the club championship this weekend I was the 16th lowest handicap entered at 8.5. If you took away the handicap prize, I suspect there would only be about 16 of us entered. We are pretty much a "handicap" golf club. There is no scratch team and the only scratch comp is the CC but that also has a handicap prize. We also have a lot (probably a majority) of senior 5 day members who won't play off the white tees.

Do you guys have a lot of cat 1 and + handicaps?

Historically no weve had very few low handicap players, cant have many if Ive played in the scratch team! We are as strong as we've ever been this yr as 3 or 4 of the juniors have got down to 2 or better but the focus (bar club champs) is almost solely on handicap golf (and at club champs its split between both!)

We do have 2 scratch teams (teams of 5) and the A are having our best ever year.

Like you we have a fair split between 5 day seniors and the rest of the members. Huge contingent of 5 day seniors, play most of their comps off the yellows (and in various formats to make then non qualifying) albeit theres not really that much difference between whites and yellows at our place.

 

[Imurg]

When I first saw this thread I thought it said " is Monty the root of all evil" and I thought that a touch harsh....:clap:

I've won a lot of comps down the years so I haven't got the same urge as some to win.
In fact I'm almost happy to not win as all prizes are vouchers to be used solely in the shop.
Often they either don't have what I need or I don't need anything so I end up getting something I don't really want just to use up the voucher.
It wouldn't worry me if prizes were dispensed with...

 

[duncan mackie]

Do you guys have a lot of cat 1 and + handicaps?

16 cat 1, 9 better than 5 and of those, 3 are very very new members and another is on the college scene in the US

so that would be a no in absolute terms, but still double yours.

 

[Foxholer]

If money was the driver, I wouldn't even consider playing Golf!

In spite of that, I've won less than my share of competition 'winnings', but more than my share of '2's money.

 

[North Mimms]

Even when I was playing my best improving golf and hcp was tumbling, I still spent more on entry fees than I won!

Because of the smaller fields, we women don't get big money prizes (or even beauty salon vouchers)